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This week, on Conventional Action Thrillers with Some Worthy Touches:
It’s a very special “Joe’s Pick” episode of Great Bad Movies, we grab our white-rimmed sunglasses and head to Tokyo for 2021’s Kate, with the always amazing Mary Elizabeth Winstead and Woody Harrelson. There’s a lot to say about his movie, but most importantly you should know that David Leitch produced it, and that’s why it’s immediately on our list 😀
Joe and Greg break it down, laugh a lot, and learn something about themselves along the way.
Note: This transcript has been auto-generated, so… You know… It’s not our fault.
Joe: Greg, in the movie we just watched. The main character gets poisoned with radioactive chemicals. When was the last time you were poisoned by radioactive chemicals? And was Vladimir Putin involved?
Greg: You know, I actually did have a crazy incident at Starbucks this year affiliated with Starbucks at all.
Joe: It probably is the man behind the curtain. Yes.
Greg: And is bleach radioactive? I should have asked that first as well.
Joe: For the purposes of this conversation, 100%, yes.
Greg: Yeah. Okay, great. I got an iced Americano at a Starbucks in my town, and there was absolutely bleach in it. It was like, what’s that flavor? And I was like, oh, that is bleach. I’m drinking bleach right now. So I got home and I threw it out and, I called them and said, I don’t know how to tell you this, but I’m almost positive.
Greg: In fact, I am positive you just served me an iced Americano with bleach in it. So I just wanted to let you know my hunches. It was in the ice. The guy was super nice and super apologetic and immediately was like pouring hot water in there ice and cleaning that thing out as we were talking on the phone.
Greg: Then he said, what can I do to make this right? I said, I don’t know, what do you have in mind? He said, do you want to come and we’ll make you another drink? And I was like, you know, the one thing I don’t want from you? Right at your branch of Starbucks is another drink. He’s like, I totally get it.
Greg: It’s like, we’ll call it good. I’m fine. And then he said, bye. I think in Russian, I didn’t recognize what language it was.
Joe: Yeah. Probably Russian.
Greg: And I fell out of a window immediately after that. So that was just the weirdest thing. It was.
Joe: Really awkward.
Greg: Yeah. How about you? Have you ever been poisoned by Vladimir Putin?
Joe: Not by Vladimir Putin. I have had food poisoning once, which was just, god awful experience, but going to a school. University of Washington. And I got some pizza. At the Polish cheese branch in the. And the hub. I got home and, like, I just had, like, the shakes. Oh, I could not get warm. Yeah. And then I just threw up more than I’ve ever thrown up before in my life.
Greg: Oh my gosh.
Joe: Needless to say, I never ate there again. I also fell out of a window right after that.
Greg: But that’s weird. That. That’s a weird coincidence.
Joe: Yeah, and when I called them, or I should, I answered. So I don’t know. It’s all weird.
Greg: I think Seattle establishments just took a hit. The totally from this question. I’m so sorry. Seattle. Yeah.
Joe: I guess you won’t be getting that sponsorship for the show anymore.
Greg: All right, well, should we get to the show?
Joe: Let’s do it.
Greg: All right. What, are you ready for this? All right, let’s dance.
Greg: Jesus, Kate. What happened to you? I missed. I think I was poisoned before the head.
Clip: Me? Who was the target?
Greg: The grand honcho of the yakuza.
Clip: How much time do I have?
Greg: 14 hours, maybe 15.
Greg: Feet. It’s going to be okay.
Clip: You won’t get any more questions from me after today.
Clip: Who are you?
Clip: I’m Kate.
Greg: The year is 2021, and screenwriter Umair Aleem has a script on The Blacklist. And we can get into what that means in a little bit, but it’s a really highly regarded script. In 2017, famous stuntman and stunt coordinator David Leach’s company 80 7-Eleven, buys it and hires Cedric Nicholas Troyan to make a movie called Kate. We are talking about, first and foremost, Mary Elizabeth Winstead, also Mike Martino, but also we’ve got Woody Harrelson.
Greg: I think that’s really all we need to say about the cast of this movie. Many other incredible Japanese actors in this movie. Joe Skye Tucker, we are doing something special here today. This is a Joe’s Pick episode of Great Bad Movies. We watched a movie because you picked it. So I’ve never meant this question more. What makes Kate a great bad movie?
Joe: I mean, the the people behind it.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: And I think I did know that 8711 was behind it, but it definitely has that feel. It’s a movie that without probably John Wick, without Atomic Blond and those movies doesn’t get made.
Greg:
Joe: It falls right in line. It’s nothing new but it’s a really well done movie. I was wondering if there was a graphic novel that this was based on. As I was watching it, just some of the shots that they have.
Greg: Yeah, I can see where you’d think that.
Joe: I’m a big fan of Mary Elizabeth Winstead.
Greg: Yeah, she.
Joe: Was amazing in I think it’s the third season of Fargo, if you haven’t seen that show. She is great in that she’s been great in everything that I’ve seen her in. That was, I think, the first time I saw her over a protracted time. She’s like a face that I recognize. We saw her last week in Die Hard four, and a bit part in that, but this, to me is a fun movie and kind of and a little bit of a spoiler alert for my real back of the boxes answers the question, what if crank and I forgot what my other movie was?
Greg: Nothing. I’m already sold on whatever this is because it started with crank.
Joe: Yeah. What if John Wick and Crank had a baby?
Greg: It’s basically what this is. That’s incredible.
Joe: So it’s a it’s an interesting premise where, you know, she’s got, a day to live. She’s been poisoned, and she’s going to exact her revenge, and she’s a hitman in the Japanese underworld, and they’re trying to get to the top of it. So I have seen this movie a couple times, thoroughly enjoyed it. Both times. It’s got some fun action sequences, especially really the first main one that we get to see her in inside, like a Japanese.
Greg: Teahouse, which, you.
Joe: Know, I did have a couple moments that I hadn’t seen before. So I, I enjoyed it. I like the story, I like the actors. I at some point we got to have the conversation needs to be had about Woody Harrelson and his career of yeah.
Greg: Oh my gosh.
Joe: He’s in everything. Everything is great and everything. So I’ll stop and toss it to you. Greg, first time for you seeing this, I’m assuming. Yeah. What what did you think I was worried it’s a little CGI blood splatter heavy in parts.
Greg: Yeah, it’s definitely in that John Wick. And for the purposes of this show, kind of monkey man territory, where there’s a bit of gore going on in The Kills, and it seems like that’s probably kind of one of the selling points of the movie that’s, you know, as I’ve said before, not really for me. So I’m looking for other parts of it.
Greg: And the other parts of it really did sell me on it to where I was glad that I watched it, where, like the performances, especially by Mary Elizabeth Winstead. I’m so glad we watched this the week after we did Live Free or Die Hard because she was robbed in that movie. She could have done so much more and we she was robbed by us.
Greg: We didn’t talk about her that much in that episode. At the end, I think I interrupted our ending and said, wait, hold up. We haven’t talked about one of the best performers in this movie, and so she, is given mostly a great script to work with here. I mentioned that this was called The Blacklist. Are you familiar with the Blacklist.
Joe: The TV.
Greg: Show? No, I.
Joe: Have watched parts of that.
Greg: But then I wonder if The Blacklist show is on The Blacklist? Probably not. It’s a list put together of the most liked scripts in Hollywood, and I think there’s usually like 50 or 75 scripts, something like that. Maybe it’s fewer, but there’s a group that puts it together, and it’s just the general consensus of the scripts that Hollywood is most excited about.
Greg: But that doesn’t mean they’re going to get made, or even that they should get made. It’s just the town really likes the script, right? And so there is kind of something to the script that’s that’s great when those movies are made. And I think this movie kind of shows it, you know, the characters are pretty great. Mary Elizabeth Winstead has given quite a bit to do, but also it’s just a movie of super fun spy, you know, revenge stuff.
Greg: It’s like a movie that takes place in a day, which is kind of cool because the clock is ticking. And I thought that the director, who had done some stuff before, had enough ideas where it was like, this guy kind of knows what he’s doing. This is there’s some entertaining direction going on here that, is not as cookie cutter as I thought it was going to be.
Greg: I like that it’s definitely not like a movie that I think I would keep on if we weren’t watching it for this show. I think I probably would have turned it off about halfway through and gone to something. I mean, a bit more innocent, but I, But this is Joe’s pick. I love him get great.
Joe: I mean, that’s I’m happy about that. I mean, I think what’s interesting about this movie to me is it’s it really is a trope fest.
Greg: It’s.
Joe: Pretty cliche filled in terms of the conversations that are happening within.
Greg: It. The.
Joe: The beats of the movie. And yet I still was riveted throughout the movie.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: And I think it’s a credit to the actors. I mean, the script, it’s a, you know, she’s got a day to live. She’s going to kill everyone. You know that that’s what’s going to happen until Kate two comes out and they’ll figure out how to resurrect her or something like that.
Greg: You texted about that. You said there’s going to be a Kate two.
Joe: I did. I saw, tentatively was supposed to come out this year.
Greg: Where did you see that? I looked all over and I couldn’t find anything kind of reputable looking that said that.
Joe: I only go to on bright, beautiful sites on the dark web.
Greg: Okay, okay. There is like a Facebook group that makes fake trailers that they wish would happen for Netflix.
Joe: I will, I’ll track it down. I could have hallucinated it. There’s a really good chance that I took the concoction of drugs that that Kate does to keep us off alive and yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, just hallucinated part two of this movie.
Greg: You do keep stabbing something into your leg.
Joe: Yeah, I’m allergic to bees. And I’m in a, you know, I’m not method actor, and I’m in the beekeeper part, too.
Greg: So love it. Love it. Well, Frank and beekeeper too. Yeah, I guess death. I’m on the brain tonight.
Joe: That’s right.
Greg: Okay, so I need to say one correction. I said 8711 and their production company is 87 North. I think 8711 was probably the, stunt company that they made, right? Yeah. An 87 North. Check this out. Their first movie is John Wick Part three. Second movie is nobody, which we covered a couple episodes ago. Third movie is Kate.
Joe: It’s pretty strong out of the.
Greg: Box.
Joe: Production right there.
Greg: So guess what? Number four is Bullet Train.
Joe: That’s awesome.
Greg: Number five is day shift. Have you ever seen day shift?
Joe: I have not, but I will be.
Greg: I think it’s Jamie Fox. It’s Netflix. Should I keep going? You’re not gonna believe this list.
Joe: It’s like every movie we want to watch.
Greg: We should say we talk about David Leach now, like, everyone knows what we’re talking about. We should say that David Leach was a stunt man, with his roommate, Chad to ski. They did stunts for, like, Brad Pitt and Keanu Reeves and a lot of movies in the 90s. And then they started kind of creating stunt scenes for other movies.
Greg: They did created the stunts for a lot of Marvel movies, a lot of the biggest movies out there, and now both of them are out there directing movies. Chad Stahelski has mostly stayed with the John Wick movies, which David Leech co-directed that first one, and then he’s been kind of directing movies since. So check out this list. After day shift, we’ve got Violent Night, which is very Kate and Bullet Train, and nobody asks, so they really have a brand that they have here.
Greg: Yeah. Then John Wick four, then the fall guy, which we love, I love, we love, which is kind of the first like fun. PG 13 innocent movie on this list. Yeah, kind of breaking the brand there. But then he made a movie called Love Hurts. It’s the guy from Indiana Jones Temple of Doom and everything everywhere, all at once.
Greg: And, it was not enjoyed by the public or critics? I don’t think so. I didn’t see it.
Joe: Well, they’re not us, so we’re putting it on. No.
Greg: Good point. It’s good point. Love hurts immediately on the list. Yes. After that ballerina. And nobody too. So pretty solid batting average going on here.
Joe: Yeah I think they’re, they’re definitely, above average on their hit rate. Yeah. And I agree the only one movie that sticks out is the fall Guy, which is, you know, their kind of love letter to stuntmen, which they both were. And knowing though that they’re, they were behind this, you know, it’s almost like, okay, you have to have overhead shots of a city as the break.
Greg: Between scenes and.
Joe: Every one of their.
Greg: Movies. 100%. Yeah. At night with at night.
Joe: Inexplicably went.
Greg: Straight. Sure, sure. I mean.
Joe: From the first moment you see a street in this movie and it’s wet. Yeah. So that that’s awesome. And then, yeah, some of their future stuff, like I am super excited about Chad Stahelski stepping out of the John Wick world and doing.
Greg:
Joe: The Ghost of Tsushima, which is a video game that I played. There’s, another sequel to that video game coming out this fall. I’ve already preordered it. It was so good. And that’s one of the most violent video games I’ve ever played. I can only imagine how insane. Yeah, yeah, this is. And it’s the same story. You know, the Mongols come in and, kill everybody in his clan.
Joe: And then there’s one guy who has to go on his own and kill everyone.
Greg: In the video game. Does, like, sweet, funny Ryan Gosling, reconnect with his old girlfriend, Emily Blunt.
Joe: I so wish.
Greg: Watson so it can be a movie for both of us. Yeah, exactly.
Joe: And they have a really funny conversation on the beach. Funny. First, come back here again.
Greg: Okay, so that’s just the thing I do. Okay? Yeah, that’s is the thing. Not just the fall guy. Yeah. Okay. Perfect.
Joe: Yeah. It’ll definitely be more of a my movie than.
Greg: A Greg movie. That’s okay. I’m here for that. Yeah. So in the streets you’re talking about that are inexplicably wet are in Tokyo. And they filmed a lot of this in actually Bangkok. It was mostly filmed in Thailand, maybe like a week for external shots in Japan and then a little bit in LA. Which of those towns would you guess?
Greg: Woody Harrelson was in when they were filming?
Joe: I’m guessing he did not leave L.A.
Greg: That is my guess as well. All of his scenes seem to be on a set somewhere. I was like, he has this dialed in. That is incredible.
Joe: He is only in, like, four scenes. Honestly. Yeah, maybe five. And they all are basically the same office building somewhere. That they could have changed the angles so that you think it might be a different location.
Greg: Yeah. What do you think the budget was for this movie? This is a new segment called Joe Guesses the Budget, but I think I just invented.
Joe: I am pretty good at guessing Rotten Tomatoes scores. I am terrible at guessing the budget.
Greg: You said nobody was 75 and it was 16. Yeah.
Joe: So I’m going to go low, but I’m going to go like 30 million.
Greg: Oh 25 so you’re getting there.
Joe: Yeah. I’m, I’m, I’m finding my the dials here. Yeah.
Greg: But man how awesome is that low budget movie that’s cheap enough that the studio isn’t going to call with complaints. Probably.
Joe: Right.
Greg: Not that I doubt Netflix does that anyway, but yeah, what a good scenario for this movie to get made. So what did you think of the look of Bangkok for Tokyo or Osaka? But you know, like Thailand for Japan. What do you think of the look at this movie?
Joe: I thought it was a really pretty movie.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: Me too. So I thought they did a good job. Cinematographer did a good job. I, there aren’t a lot of scenes that are outside where you want, you know, that you’re craving it. There’s that one famous crosswalk in Tokyo that they filmed in, but the rest of it, I mean, it really could have been anywhere. Yeah.
Joe: So it was fine. But I really like the look of the film. I thought it was a pretty film. This is a movie you could set anywhere in the world.
Greg: Totally. Bakersfield. Yeah.
Joe: Everybody knows how bad the Mafia is in Bakersfield.
Greg: So. Yeah, well, we’ve done it again. We’ve we’ve strayed away from Mary Elizabeth Winstead. What would you say is the biggest selling point of Mary Elizabeth Winstead in a movie like Kate for you?
Joe: She does a, a really good job with the stunt. I know that there are few moments where it’s pretty clear that there’s a stunt woman in her place. But I just. I think this is a role that needs a really good actor to get through some of the pretty silly lines.
Greg:
Joe: Right. In the beginning she’s talking to Woody Harrelson and then they’re in a van together. So clearly in Los Angeles.
Greg: Yeah sure. Someone’s just shaking the side of the van.
Joe: Yeah. You know the conversation we’ve seen a million times about trying to get out and wanting a normal life. And it to me it resonates and it’s I know we’ve talked about this with other actors, where actors of a certain caliber can elevate a movie when the writing doesn’t give them as much to, to work with. Yeah. So I think that her ability to be a good actor throughout.
Greg: This.
Joe: Holds the movie together, and she has to hold the center because she’s basically in like 95% of the scenes.
Greg: Just about every frame of the movie. Yeah, yeah.
Joe: So we’re following her. She looks sickly throughout and gets worse and worse. And so, you know, I appreciate the kind of the physicality of the role and how she inhabited it and her acting ability. So.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: What else about her that I’m missing?
Greg: She does really hold the screen very well with the humanity that I definitely miss in other people on screen. It did seem like she was a little bit slower in some of the fight scenes then, you know, we kind of see a lot of times now, I think some of that was the fault of the director and where where they put the camera and how they were cutting.
Greg: But she also was struggling with radiation poisoning the whole time. And so sometimes it’s kind of like it’s moving a little slow. And then it was like, oh, that kind of fits her character. So maybe it’s okay. I don’t know if it’s just that, you know, she didn’t learn the stunts fast enough or it’s just, you know, part of the plot.
Greg: So I kind of felt like, oh, that’s a good, excuse, but I only noticed it a couple times. And when they start doing these scenes, I really start looking for the scenes, you know, like, where are they going to cut it? What are they doing to build, you know, and you know.
Joe: Oh, like the fight scenes build to a crescendo.
Greg: Yeah, like a crescendo. I did something I’ve never done before when I watch this movie. I decided to listen to it on a drive first. So I actually listened to the first half hour of this movie and then went back and watched it. And it was a really interesting, great, bad movie exercise, only to hear the audio in your car while you’re driving, right?
Greg: And man, the tropes just fly at you. Yeah, when you’re not watching it. Like, oh my gosh, like almost like a bell is going off in my car. But I also really liked the opening scene, and I actually really liked that I was listening to it because their performance is really quite amazing. And also the screenwriting is taut enough that they’re giving you a lot of information in just a minute or two.
Greg: So let’s listen to them introducing the movie and their characters at the same time. Sure you don’t want to use the variable scope for this?
Clip: No, we’ve got a lock on doctor introductory.
Greg: Oh, I want to hear that saying. Listen to your elders big phrase. Especially here in Japan. That’s you’re an elder now, elder doesn’t necessarily mean old, it just means older is in smarter, wiser. But hey, I’m serious. We blow this chance at seven.
Clip: Years of.
Greg: Hard work down the drain.
Greg: So you do listen to me.
Clip: The other missed once in 12 years. Yeah. I’m not gonna miss a.
Greg: Nice, warm conversation. He’s, like, helping her get her, her bulletproof vest on. And it’s it’s a kind of a striking moment. He kind of reaches towards her belly area, and she’s just cool with it, you know, like, they have done this before, and it’s a safe relationship. They kind of establish a lot in there.
Joe: Yeah. I’m having a moment of the opening scene of this and the opening scene of shooter, where they’re in enemy territory, and it’s the most painfully awkward. How can we setup this moment and the rest of the movie with.
Greg: Less.
Joe: Capable actors?
Greg:
Joe: But no less amount of tropes.
Greg: Sure.
Joe: You know, so I think better screenwriting. So I, you know, I maybe took a few too many shots at the writing on this, but I think the writing is good for this kind of movie. It’s not.
Greg: Yeah. Yeah.
Joe: You know, they’re not making a movie that’s going to win an Oscar for screenwriting. But the banter that they have kind of where she’s like talking over him a little bit and that’s like, you know, the daughter who’s a little put out with her dad, asking her the same things over and over again. And it’s it is it’s a great scene.
Joe: And that throughout the movie is what holds that, because a lot of movies like this, I’m just waiting for the action scene.
Greg: Yeah, yeah.
Joe: And I and I liked it. And I really like the relationship between her and the little girl who she ends up horny. Yeah. Trying to having to protect because I kind of. It starts off, you know, again trope filled with she’s mad, yells at her, you know, but then they become companions throughout the movie.
Greg: Yeah, yeah. There is an aspect of where on earth is this going? We usually joke at the end of an episode that we’re going to spoil it, but we should say, like, we’re going to spoil this movie. Yeah. If you haven’t seen Kate and this, this is such a tricky thing because Kate, you know, on Netflix, like, has been seen by 100 billion people or something.
Greg: But like when you mention it, nobody has seen it. Like extraction was the most watched movie in history in 2020. But like, yeah, I can’t find many people who have seen it. So it’s hard to say what people have seen. So we’re going to spoil Kate. If you don’t want Kate spoiled you should press pause and come back to us.
Greg: But I don’t think it’s going to change your experience of watching Kate if you know what happens. I guess I did feel the tension all the way through the movie. Is she going to die? And then she does die at the end. And, I really liked that they did that, you know? And then it’s like she closes her eyes and then cuts the credits.
Greg: But a cool thing to do, you know, like they really did it. I really didn’t think they were going to do it, and they did it. That was kind of amazing.
Joe: It’s a movie that doesn’t need a sequel. I will happily watch it, sure, if it comes out. Yeah, but like you, I the first time I watched it, I was expecting, okay, they’re going to run in with, magic cure at the end.
Greg: Yeah. You really do anticipate that.
Joe: And I appreciate that they didn’t do that. Yeah as well. Yeah, I like that. That’s a finite moment. And she exacts her revenge. That’s where she needs to go. Again, with a, very trope filled moment where they’re trying to get to the big bad guy who had, not being the big, bad guy. But then, of course, Ani and I’m blanking on that actress’s name basis.
Joe: Oh, that’s my you know, my uncle and he’s he probably is at this house. It’s like, yeah, could I lead with that?
Greg: Yeah. You know. Yeah.
Joe: 12 hours ago. Right. And we could have skipped all of this, but that’s all right. You know, we had to we had to go through all of that.
Greg: Kind of in my last day here. Yeah. You know, my clock is ticking.
Joe: Kind of literally so.
Greg: Right.
Joe: But that’s okay. You know, we’ll forgive her that. But yeah, there are a lot of those moments throughout of, like, how they get to the different basically set piece action scenes, can feel a little contrived. I totally concede that.
Greg: One thing that I struggled with on this was if you had one more day, would you exact revenge, or would you choose something else to do with your time?
Joe: I mean, you and I would choose probably something else to do.
Greg: And what is the name of that ice cream flavor you’re going to eat?
Joe: It’s all of them. It is every.
Greg: Single.
Joe: It is 24 hours of ice cream and it’s glorious.
Greg: We need to make a documentary called 24 Hour Ice Cream people. Yeah.
Joe: And it’s it’s a shot for shot remake of 24 Hour Party People.
Greg: But yeah.
Joe: Yeah, but there’s no Joy Division in it.
Greg: Right? That was like historical fiction, I guess. Yeah. Okay. So ours is historical fiction as well.
Joe: Yeah, exactly.
Greg: Are you putting all of every flavor in the same bowl or you keeping them in separate bowls?
Joe: Oh, no separate bowls.
Greg: Okay, okay.
Joe: Honestly. And this is I’m glad you brought this up.
Joe: Often when I get two scoops at, like, Baskin-Robbins in the same bowl, it bothers me because I like the one and the other. I don’t really like to go back and forth or mix them, and I think a lot about how the two flavors are going to mix together, because there’s obviously going to be some crossover, so you can’t put the wrong flavors together or just ruins the whole experience.
Greg: So when we open our ice cream place, are we serving up split scoops? But like there’s like a paper divider going down the middle of the bowl so you can put half of the scoop and the other half in the same bowl separated by some sort of divider. Or are we giving them two different bowls?
Joe: I feel like this might be just my my own choice, sure. But I think if you’re paying a little extra and you want to keep the segregation of ice cream, then will absolutely do that for you.
Greg: Are you walking away with one bowl that has just a brick wall of security between those two flavors, kind of going down the middle of the bowl? Or are you walking out with two bowls?
Joe: I think you’ve got to have one bowl, because holding two balls and trying to eat would be. Yeah, impossible.
Greg: Yeah. Okay.
Joe: But I think we need to workshop a specially designed, probably, made out of white, cornstarch bowl that’s biodegradable, but also has two compartments. Okay, that’s where I’m leaning right now.
Greg: Don’t cross the streams. What I hear you saying exactly.
Joe: Yeah. Important safety tip.
Greg: Important. Did you have any, like, favorite scenes? What stands out to you in the movie? Kate. Yeah.
Joe: So I had a, you know, some of the fight scenes I did really enjoy even the last one, which kind of fell a little flat and was I felt like I’d seen a lot of that kind of scene before.
Greg: In like The Office.
Joe: Yeah, in the office with the laser scopes and all of that.
Greg: Right.
Joe: It kind of turned a little bit into nobody where they’re just, you know, all of a sudden just machine gun shooting everywhere. And it’s kind of hard to follow the action. And part of what I love about 8711 and their action is it feels really tight and the like the hand, the hand stuff. Right? Yeah. When they kind of go bra, then it’s like, I loses a little bit for me, but there’s a, there’s a scene when she first meets Arnie, and honey is not very kind to her.
Greg: No. He’s like entitled. Yeah. Well. Jerk. Yeah. You know.
Joe: Daughter of a gangster. What do you expect?
Greg: And probably hurting because her dad was killed. Yeah.
Joe: And the backstory is that Kate has killed her father. Right. And that was in the opening scene that when Woody Harrelson and her are talking. And after that.
Greg: And she goes, you can’t suppress.
Joe: I don’t know, there’s something about that line that’s.
Greg: Yeah, it’s just like.
Joe: It’s so perfect. And it was it was probably the only laugh in the movie that I had. It’s not a very it’s not a very funny movie. And then there’s a scene at the end of a fight scene where Mary Elizabeth Winstead just has, like, kicked everyone’s ass, and then just, like, screams.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: She kind of like, I think sits down or, you know, and then I, you know, it felt like an unscripted moment or.
Greg: Moment like, you know.
Joe: They get through it and she’s like, you know, an actor in the moment. And I just, I so those are a couple of my favorite little moments. It’s those little moments in the movie that that did it for me. Yeah. Ani is pretty funny. She is probably the funniest part of it. She’s, you know, a little bratty teen.
Joe: And it especially at the beginning. Right, right. And then their, their relationship is emboldened because kind of the big bad guys are also they don’t really care about her. So they’re going to try to kill her too. Or if she gets killed, they don’t care. So. Right. Yeah. So those are a couple of my favorite little moments in the in this movie.
Joe: And then I added another trope that we’ve talked about before, but I had forgotten to read and that’s, so, Kate, cut somebody’s hands off and cuts her hair and then has to, like, cut her own hair and then, you know, magically ends up with a $300 haircut.
Greg: Yeah, for the rest of you times. Yeah, yeah. Seventh twice, I think.
Joe: So that’s one of my favorite tropes in these movies where someone cuts their own hair and then, wow, they look amazing afterwards.
Greg: There’s like one little wisp to show that it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Joe: So one of my favorite, like, if anyone’s ever cut their own hair, but when they weren’t like five, it’s really impossible.
Greg: So yeah, we just call that the Richard Kimble memorial haircut from The Fugitive.
Joe: Yes.
Greg: Harrison Ford somehow does a perfect cut and died off. Yeah.
Greg: Speaking of jobs, Kate, in this movie, she is called to kill somebody. That’s who they’re talking about at the beginning. She’s going to, like, be a sniper. And Annie, who we haven’t met yet, gets out of the car with her dad. And her dad is the mark. By the way, Kate’s codename was seasonal. What do. I was seasonal, and you have to think die hard.
Greg: But maybe I’m the only person that thinks that. What would your code name me? Do you think.
Joe: I would love something cool?
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: I’m remembering, you know, obviously, like the famous scene in Reservoir Dogs when they’re talking about the nicknames and like, why can’t I be Mr. Black and.
Greg: Or.
Joe: Whatever it is? Yeah, but I’m probably I’m like the Steve Buscemi of this. So I’m probably like pink or pink Pony Club or something like that. That would be, you know, obviously because I love chaperon van.
Greg: So yeah, yeah, it’s pretty good.
Joe: But what about you?
Greg: I feel like the person on the other side would just call me pancake the whole time. I don’t know why a pancake comes to mind.
Joe: Pancake. Pink pony club roll out. All right. Yeah. I mean, I’m in.
Greg: Yeah, yeah. I think if I, if I ever have a Secret Service detail, my name will be pancake. Okay. We’re done at whole. Maybe done at whole. Yeah. So they have one simple rule and it’s no kids. And then there’s a kid in the mix. It’s very much like the beginning of Face Off at the beginning of this movie.
Greg: Yeah, except it’s the adult who gets killed. Not the kid, but she’s really rattled by this. And so she’s kind of like, I’ll do what I have to do, but this is this is it. And we get one of my very favorite things that could possibly happen in a movie. And it was when I was so thankful that you said we should watch this, because this scene happened.
Clip: Like I promised I’d finish the job when I, well.
Clip: And then I’m out.
Greg: One last job, Joe. One last job.
Joe: Oh, let me just check my job list. Oh, it’s on there.
Greg: Oh, my gosh, I was so excited when that happened. Things move along pretty quickly in this movie plot wise. Yeah. Which I appreciate because I really didn’t know where it was going. But there’s a pretty great scene where Arnie kind of gives a monologue as Kate is kind of passing out, falling asleep as they drive to the final confrontation in a taxi.
Greg: Should we shine the light on Arnie for a second? And here on his monologue? Yeah, okay, let’s do it.
Clip: No more questions.
Clip: I don’t know anything about you don’t need to.
Clip: Do you want to know about me? I don’t know enough.
Clip: I’m. I’m the last person you’ll get to know. You don’t want to know me.
Clip: That’s sad. Okay, I think that’s. It’s really sad.
Clip: My mom’s a guy trying to. That’s why I’ve never met her. Never even seen a picture. You won’t. I don’t know what she looks like.
Clip: She looks like you. I bet tall and pretty. Okay, from now, dude’s just doing what she wants all the time.
Clip: Total color. Babe.
Greg: And then Kate kind of, like, falls asleep on her shoulder. And then she takes some selfies with Kate passed out on her shoulder, which is pretty awesome. That was a pretty good moment. But also that just like they kind of give it a moment, you know, which is kind of nice on their way to a scene where I don’t know how many pieces of glass were shot through with, with a laser.
Greg: So at least I got many.
Greg: I think you need I think we need to watch ballerina. It’s, January when it’s time to get back into the John Wick universe.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: Because I think ballerina is the course correction of this movie like ballerina is, is this done right. And they actually filmed ballerina. And then famously like Chad Stahelski we’re pretty sure just took it over and re filmed a bunch of the movie to make it more John Wick in interest. That’s if that’s a term.
Joe: I’m sure it’s a term now.
Greg: So I feel like maybe David Lee should have done that as well here.
Joe: If I’m being honest, like, how do you make this movie better? It’s the full 8711 and my notes are put it in the bullet train universe because I it feels like that’s the world that wants to lean into it. Doesn’t feel like a John Wick in the same sense of like some of the other movies we’ve seen. But this definitely I mean, it feels like an 8711 production.
Greg:
Joe: Because it is, but also the world building feels more bullet train, which is funnier than, you know, if they kind of turned up the humor a little bit and have this be, I can’t believe I’m saying this, a prequel or bullet train, or for one of the characters that you kind of meet, you know, I’m still waiting for Hendren and Lemmon or something like that.
Joe: Those two characters, the brothers. I would watch a thousand films, but those two as the main characters in it.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: So when I think of when I see their films as there’s some great action stuff, but the filmmaking behind it is also really good. The color stories, they have good cinematography. They have, you know, good writing. It’s not a B-movie where it could easily fall into that category to me.
Greg: I thought about Atomic Blond while I was watching this movie, quite a bit. And Atomic Blond is probably the better. Cate. Yeah. Do you think? Yeah. I mean, we can live in a world where there’s both, but I wish that Mary Elizabeth Winstead had been an atomic blond alongside Charlize Theron. Yeah, because then Cate would have fit into a better movie.
Greg: And I don’t know why that is. Probably just the director, I guess. I don’t know.
Joe: It doesn’t hold a candle to me, to Atomic Blond and Atomic Blond is more ambitious.
Greg:
Joe: Has a bigger story that cast I mean.
Greg: We’ll get to atomic blonds. Yeah. But I did really enjoy Mary Elizabeth Winstead and I also really liked that they were making this ridiculous, great bad movie with her in it, where she was bringing more magic than she needed to to make it that kind of movie. Yeah. But I was also really fascinated when this movie came out.
Greg: When you take into account the movies she had made right before, I think the first thing I saw her in was was Live Free or Die Hard, and then I didn’t see much of the other stuff that she had done. After that, for whatever reason, I’d seen Bobby, and then she was in Scott Pilgrim Versus the World. Do you remember that movie?
Joe: I remember it, I don’t I have not seen any of the Scott Pilgrim. Then there aren’t there are a couple.
Greg: There was a show.
Joe: Okay.
Greg: Let me read you, the actors from Scott Pilgrim versus the world, Edgar Wright film from 2010 I think. All right. We got Michael Sarah. Mary Elizabeth Winstead, Kieran Culkin, Anna Kendrick, Alison Pill, Aubrey Plaza, Jason Schwartzman, Chris Evans. It’s one of those things where it’s like, oh my gosh. Like everybody in this movie became famous. Which probably says something about Edgar Wright and his ability to cast.
Greg: So I was so stoked to see her in that movie when it came out because Edgar Wright, you know we’ve talked about Hot Fuzz, we’ve talked about Shaun of the dead. Also, the World’s End Baby Driver is on our list. You know, like he’s the kind of person we will be tracking with on this show. Yeah, he.
Joe: Loves the kind of movies we love.
Greg: Yeah. Edgar Wright should have made this movie. We can agree on that. Yeah. Okay.
Joe: Yeah, it’d be funnier.
Greg:
Joe: And I think the action is just as solid.
Greg: Yep. Let me read through a couple more movies from her filmography. She’s kind of all over the place in it. There’s, you know, like in these movies, her characters are often just kind of cooler than you. You’d be really lucky to ever get the chance to joke around with her. That’s kind of how I feel that she picks movies as well, where it’s like she’s just all over the place.
Greg: She’s picking a drama called smashed. I think about addiction. She’s an Abraham Lincoln vampire hunter. Awesome. She’s in The Spectacular Now, kind of like a big emotional drama. She’s in A Good Day to Die Hard. Unfortunately, she’s an Alex of Venice, which is a drama. She’s in a movie called Kill the Messenger. Have you ever heard of this movie?
Greg: It’s got Renner in it. It’s like a true story of him discovering how I think crack was kind of secretly, tacitly brought to America and the government was using it for or kind of okay with it being used in different cities in one way or another. Really interesting. She was in Swiss Army, man. Do you know that movie?
Joe: I do know that movie. I don’t know if it’s a movie that we’ll do on this podcast, but it’s certainly one of the weirdest premises for a movie I’ve ever seen. And I appreciate. And it’s got a it’s got a crazy cast in it.
Greg: Yeah, it’s like Paul Dano, Mary Elizabeth Winstead, Daniel Radcliffe, but it’s directed by the guys who did everything everywhere all at once, which is really all you need to hear.
Joe: Yeah. I mean.
Greg: So it could have won Best Picture that year. Here’s what we’re saying. Yes. Can we sidebar for a second about the movie ten Cloverfield Lane?
Joe: I have not seen it.
Greg: Okay, this movie is for sure too good for us to cover. I think it is so good. And Dan Trachtenberg has a long history of of being amazing. He had a podcast called the Totally Rad Show, which I listen to way back in the day. You could watch it as well. So the podcast Return Filmmaker is what that movie is, which is inspiring to everybody.
Greg: Yes, moving along, she was in that show Fargo, which you really liked. I haven’t seen that, but let’s get to right around the time that Kate came out, I had just seen her in a great bad movie called Gemini Man before. Kate cannot do you know, Gemini Man and that Will.
Joe: Smith and
Greg: Yeah. And younger Will Smith, Clive Owens in there. It’s an ang Lee movie,
Joe: I have not seen it. Is it a movie we need to do?
Greg: Oh, it’s on our list.
Joe: It’s okay. Okay.
Greg: That’s how you were drinking a lot in that meeting. Yeah, yeah. See why you want it. Yeah. It is such a great bad movie. And ang Lee is just such a real filmmaker. And he is obsessed with high frame rate filming. Like, he filmed this movie at 120 frames per second. I think. And most movies are like 24 frames a second in film, sometimes 30.
Greg: He’s walking. So filmmakers in the future can run. He’s kind of he’s kind of like Robert Zemeckis thing with like, motion capture footage so that, you know, down the road it can be used seamlessly. It’s such a bizarre movie. And I mean, I streamed it on like Hulu or whatever, you know? So like I did not see in the theater at 120 frames per second, I don’t think it was actually screened at 120 frames per second in very many places on the planet.
Greg: But anyways, as someone who, like, dabbles with film files, sometimes that was just like amazing. And she was great in it. She was so good. It was exactly like Live Free or Die Hard. Except maybe not quite as good, which is maybe going to be a sticky point for you.
Joe: I mean, it might be great though.
Greg: I was just like, I have no idea what she’s doing in this movie, but I’m so, so glad she’s in this movie. And the next year she was in a movie called Birds of Prey.
Joe: I forgot she was in that. Yeah, I’ve seen that. She’s great in that too. That’s a fun movie that should be on our list.
Greg: So. And then the next year she’s in. Kate, what on earth is Mary Elizabeth Winstead telling us? She’s like, I’m going to be an action star. Yeah. So awesome. She should be doing this all day, every day. As far as I can tell. She’s currently in post-production for the movie The Hand that Rocks the Cradle.
Joe: Really that I’m assuming remake of the Rebecca Dawn Mornay film.
Greg: So yeah. Yeah.
Joe: She the Rebecca De Mornay or is she the the wife?
Greg: Maybe she’s the baby. Digitally. De-aged.
Joe: I love it.
Greg: It’s a Benjamin Button scenario.
Joe: I so hope that that’s true.
Greg: Well, Mary Elizabeth Winstead, we’re rooting for you.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: Everything you’re in is better as a result. Let’s go through some of the people who are behind the scenes in this movie just to appreciate them, because this movie did look incredible. So as I was watching this movie, I was kind of like, man, this really reminds me of Collateral by Michael Mann, because it’s it’s clearly digital and it’s messing with, kind of low light camera sensors.
Greg: So you can see far at in the evening, at nighttime. So my guy Lyle Vinson is, is doing that. And he was the cinematographer of a movie called Carry On last year. I don’t know if you saw carry on is an amazing bad movie that came out around last Christmas.
Joe: Is that the one with Taron Edgerton?
Greg: Sure was.
Joe: Oh my God, I that movie. I did watch that movie, and I was so annoyed with myself for watching that movie by the end. It’s definitely a movie we will get to because it is so bad.
Greg: I think I was conflicted the whole time and then it was done. I was ready for the next one. Yeah, that’s how I felt. I was like, that’s a very weird feeling. He was also the cinematographer on that movie Bad Education, which I remember being a pretty good drama with Hugh Jackman. I think Ray Romano might have been in that movie anyway, so the digital photography of this movie was interesting.
Greg: I want to talk about the writer who Marilyn, who wrote this script, and it was on the Black List. We’re a couple years into this, so I don’t know if this is actually happening, but, Marilyn is writing the reboot, the film Under Siege.
Joe: 100%.
Greg: In. Could you do Under Siege without Andrew Davis, the director? I think he is. The reason that movie was good definitely wasn’t Steven Seagal. Tommy Lee Jones was good. Gary Busey was just seeing all over the place. I question if it can work without Andrew Davis around.
Joe: I mean, it’s well worth investigating that question again to me, like this, depending on who or who is behind it. Like if it’s an 8711 stunt team production.
Greg:
Joe: It gives me a lot more hope. I mean we’re going to watch it.
Greg: So a pretty good director is working on it. Is the director of nobody too.
Joe: Okay.
Greg: Also has done some interesting the kind of horror movies that people are interested in. But I will never see like VHS and VHS to VHS 94. So knows how to do a tense scene. Is is what I’m gathering from that, even though I will never see those movies. Let’s talk about the second unit director, who I think is the star of K, alongside Mary Elizabeth Winstead.
Greg: We’re talking about Jonathan Eusebio, and this guy was an action unit director on the fate of the furious. Fast and furious eight. Deadpool two. Okay, birds of prey. He did stuff on the show. Obi-Wan Kenobi, second unit director on Violent Night. And then he directed Love Hurts, which was not well liked. But I think this guy knows how to do some pretty interesting fight scenes.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: So maybe directing not his strongest suit, but.
Greg: Right.
Joe: Second unit.
Greg: Yeah. He’s a good, good person to have around for sure. Stunt coordinator on this movie was a guy named Sang Kawi, and he’s big in Thailand. And most of this movie was filmed in Thailand. So he’s like the Thailand stunt coordinator for a lot of films like Spike Lee’s The Five Bloods, a little movie called extraction.
Joe: One of the greatest movies action movies ever made.
Greg: Yeah, those are his high points. There are also some movies in there, like the oh, but, you know, the stunts can still be good in a bad movie. We’ve learned that. We’ve been screaming that from the rooftops. So anyways, when it comes to the stunt coordinator or the second unit director, it’s impossible to make a good movie. And I think these guys did an incredible job with the tasks they were given, and they had $25 million to do it.
Greg: So. So, Joe, it occurs to me that we’re going through this movie and there might be some people who don’t even know what Kate is. Do you think we could pretend like we’re going through the aisles of Blockbuster Video picking up boxes off the shelf and reading the back of those boxes to see if it’s the kind of movie that we should rent tonight.
Greg: That’s right. It’s time for the back of the box.
Joe: It’s the back of the box. When Kate Elizabeth Winstead is poisoned by members of the Japanese underworld, she must race against time to exact her revenge and save the daughter of one of her victims. Can she stay alive long enough, or will she become another body on the pile in the gang wars that are spilling into the streets, Kate packs a punch and then spits in your face.
Joe: Look out or she will come for you next.
Greg: No.
Joe: Yeah. So be careful.
Greg: Just try to make it to tomorrow and then you’ll be fine. Yeah, yeah.
Joe: I mean, it’s not gonna be too hard, but if you get in her way during this one night.
Greg: Go. Just hang out on the set of ten Cloverfield Lane for, like, 24 hours in a bunker. Yeah. All right, that was like the marketing version of this. But let’s get to the real, honest version of the back of the box. Let’s do Joe’s real back of the box. All right.
Joe: This movie would not exist without John Wick and borrows heavily from that world. It is a pretty movie and one that I enjoyed thoroughly. That said, all I can imagine as a sleazy Hollywood writer pitching it as what if John Wick and Crank had a baby, a girl, baby?
Greg: Well.
Joe: Well, it’s not saying anything new. It is a worthy companion to the one against them all action movie trope. So sit back and let this movie take you away.
Greg: Yeah, yeah, there was a famous movie in 1950 that this was sort of based on as well called D.O.A. that’s about a guy who’s been poisoned and he spends his, you know, final hours trying to figure out what happened. So props to D.O.A. for giving us the framing of this one, and props to this movie for actually having her pass away.
Greg: And yeah, that was that was kind of unbelievable. Joe, should we get to the box office and reviews of this movie?
Joe: Absolutely. Are the butts off as long as hard with Netflix? I’m not quite sure how you calculate it, but I’ll let you figure that out.
Greg: Yeah, we’ll do it anyway. Yeah, well, this movie made $25 million, and it was one of the most viewed movies in 2021 on Netflix. That’s all we got. Hopefully they got some subscribers they were known for like throwing ridiculous amounts of money into movies kind of irresponsibly, to the point where I think they’re making like a third of the amount of movies they used to.
Greg: So this is right in that sweet spot of a movie that is cheap enough that they probably didn’t bother them while they were making it. So we hope they got some subscribers for, you know, keeping the Great Bad movie industry alive.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: What do you think? On Rotten Tomatoes, the critic score of this movie is.
Joe: I mean, it feels like a 70.
Greg: It does, because there’s like stuff that’s amazing. Yeah.
Joe: But I feel like this is like a 54, 46% 46. Okay. Lower than I would have anticipated a little lower.
Greg: Yeah. There’s only a thousand or so audience scores on this movie which is just so weird. You know so many people watch this movie. Why are they talking about it on Rotten Tomatoes? I don’t it’s little there’s a disconnect there. So we have a thousand people on Rotten Tomatoes giving their audience score what they call the popcorn meter.
Greg: What do you think that is on this movie.
Joe: I feel like it’s a movie that audiences would like.
Greg: I’m going to go.
Joe: I’m going to go 70. I’m going to go with the 70.
Greg: It does feel like a 70. I think you’re on to something there.
Joe: It does feel like a 70.
Greg: A 52%.
Joe: 52. Oh, I was way off off my game on this one.
Greg: But looking back on our conversation about Kate, do those feel about. Right.
Joe: Yeah, it feels about right. I mean, I think if we averaged our scores, that’s probably where it would be.
Greg: Okay. Okay. All right. Well, let’s talk about what some of the critics said about this movie. Unfortunately, the Seattle Times did not review this movie. So we can’t start with our hometown paper. So let’s start with the Los Angeles Times. They said, if you’re signing up for an assassin revenge movie with Winstead entertainingly kicking ass, you’re going to get one.
Greg: Yeah, it’s pretty good if you’re going into this with the right expectations. We’re constantly saying this. Yeah, you’re going to be happy. News day says this is a conventional action thriller with some worthy touches, but hardly enough to make it stand out. Two and a half out of four.
Joe: I feel like that’s pretty fair.
Greg: Okay, okay, slate says. Kate gestures at being different, something fresh and subversive. But at the end of the day, it’s just reheating old cliches. Yeah, but is it reheating them?
Joe: Well, that would be my counter.
Greg: It’s not too hot, it’s not too cold. It’s the perfect reheat. Yeah, yeah. The Guardian says something that could be the name of this podcast. A 12.2 hour slab of pop that slickly glides above a very low bar, three out of five stars. I love it. Amy Nicholson, amazing reviewer when she was working for variety, says Winslet makes you believe, however improbably, that if a woman like Kate actually existed outside a screenwriter’s imagination, she wouldn’t be far off from this portrayal.
Greg: Isolated, meal headed, and ready for a change. All right. There’s a lot packed into that and that she’s saying and I agree with all of it I think. Yeah. But we’re going to go out on top. We’re going to go straight to the Chicago Sun-Times with Richard Roeper who had something incredible to say about this movie.
Greg: You’re not going to get much in the way of original plot, but what you will get is a grindhouse of a good time with some bleak and wickedly sharp humor, screen popping visuals, and some pretty great fight choreography. Three out of four stars.
Joe: I agree with that. I think. I mean, Richard Ropers, I like the three out of four. Feels right. Yeah, even three out of five feels about right.
Greg: If I’m three and if anything feels perfect. Yeah, exactly.
Joe: 3 to.
Greg: 3. Yeah. Two.
Joe: Right. A ten.
Greg: Three out of a million. Yeah. That’s still a threat. A three is a three, three, three. No matter how you look at it, I do like that. He said a grindhouse of good time. And I forgot to mention this. She was in Grindhouse. The, the right guy in Tarantino.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: Quentin Tarantino movie.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: What kind of movie podcaster am I when I forget Quentin Tarantino’s name for a second?
Greg: My gosh, that’s so embarrassing. All right, well, let’s get to the magic. Joe. Yeah. Are you ready to talk about some drinking games?
Joe: Oh, yes. I am so ready. Okay, so. All right, again, everyone playing at home. That’s now to be alcohol can be water, coffee, juice, smoothie, whatever. Lemonade. And Arnold Palmer get.
Greg: Together with your friends and, watch this movie and assign these drinking games to a different person in the room and see who has to drink the most badly. Yeah.
Joe: So we have our stock drinking games, starting with a silent helicopter or a low flying helicopter. Do not have that in this movie. We do have some shots. Could have been on a drone, could have been CGI overhead of a city. But I don’t think you should drink with that one. We do not have a push in and enhance.
Joe: Missed opportunity. I feel like there is a slow motion look in the middle of chaos, which I appreciated. No silent suffering or explosion with ringing in the ears. Opening credits scene kind of walks into place. Feels very matrix to me. That’s what I got from the credits. And then Japanese hip hop kind of comes in as the title pops up and the place flashes back the dialog a couple different times, a lot of CGI blood splatter.
Joe: So you kind of gave some over-the-top CGI. Great bad shots are everywhere, and the streets are so inexplicably wet you just can’t even believe it. From the very first shot to the very last shot of this, of every road someone has come out with. Garden hose. I don’t know, fire hose. It is just rained constantly in this movie is what I took away from it.
Greg: Much like nobody has, like, big letters on the screen. But in this movie, they’re neon signs that are like flickering and stuff. So here’s what that sounds like. Right there you can hear the neon flickering.
Greg: That happens a few times. To me.
Joe: There is no give us the room or Interpol or our cell phone smash. We do not have a cell phone smash either. Recently added to our drinking games list the difference between a drinking game and a trope. Don’t ask those questions. In fact, don’t speak to us ever. Or look us in the eye. But I will toss it to you, Greg.
Joe: What is one of the order decay?
Greg: I feel like on the inside, what you want is for people to come closer, but on the outside, you’re pushing them away.
Joe: Exactly.
Greg: All right. My first unique drinking game for the movie, Cate, is any time a new city shows up on the screen in neon sign graphics.
Joe: Oh, I like that. I have one that’s similar. Anytime you see cartoons on the side of buildings.
Greg: That’s really good. What a cool city. Come on, cartoons on the outside of your buildings. It’s amazing. Any time they control the music of the movie with something they do on screen, like when they take their headphones off their head, the the music kind of fades.
Joe: I feel like we may have to add that as a trope. Yeah, that is how we first meet her in one scene where she’s running, and then she takes her headphones out in the song that we’re hearing really loud is and cuts out like she’s listening to that. So that happens so much in our movies.
Greg: So yeah, in a great way.
Joe: Yes. And in the best way I have, Tom cruise tears any time you see those, because there are a few moments in.
Greg: This.
Joe: Of Tom cruise.
Greg: Here’s for any new listeners. What’s a Tom cruise here?
Joe: It’s where there’s welling of tears in the eyes. They get a little glassy. Maybe a teardrop escapes.
Greg: It’s more Tom cruise, the if there’s no to. Yeah.
Joe: No to a Tom cruise has perfected not one tear falling. But yeah the emotion is just right there. Yeah. But I think he actually does have a couple teardrop moments. But they could have been CGI did as well.
Greg: I think they were real okay. And I think she doesn’t know how to control it the way Tom cruise does.
Joe: Yeah, exactly.
Greg: Still working on it. My next one is anytime a text. Oh this movie.
Joe: I love that one. I thought he.
Greg: Had a lot of like texting on the screen. Which is just a reality of today’s movies. What do you think of texting on the screen? Not like they’re showing the phone. Like we’re watching the movie and overlaid on the on the movie that we’re watching, they’re showing text bubbles.
Joe: I like it because I think that so much of our world has become our communication has become texting. And so.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: I think bringing it in is fine.
Greg: So many old school directors have been like cell phones have ruined movies.
Joe: I mean, what old school directors and just people, as they get older say about the the younger generation. This to me feels so gets so performative. It’s like Bill Maher, I don’t know if did you see what does a Marc Maron on his on Pod Save America?
Greg: No.
Joe: And he just rips into Bill Maher.
Greg: Like really.
Joe: It’s like basically like Boomer is trying to cling to relevance. He just doesn’t feel like his tone is like Quentin Tarantino was kind of can be so pompous about some of these things. You know, I was like, oh my God, let the younger generation have their things. It’s okay. It’s not anything against you, you know? Yeah. I’m.
Joe: Yeah. I don’t mind it. I don’t mind seeing that, you know, it’s part of the culture. I mean, how many times a day do you text? Do we all text?
Greg: It’s ubiquitous. Yeah. It’s totally. I did appreciate the design. That was a little bit atomic blond ish. You know, where there was a distinctive look to any sort of cell phone imagery that they showed on the screen? Yeah. So, yeah, that’s my drinking game. Anytime they text. What’s your next one?
Joe: I have anytime she takes the EpiPen to her leg of the concoction. Take a drink.
Greg: Stimulants. Yeah, that’s I think that’s all they said.
Joe: Yeah. Whatever that means to you. That’s what’s in there.
Greg: I totally had that one as well. My next one is anytime they say polonium 204. Oh, that’s so good. How did I miss that one? Which is what she has been poisoned with.
Joe: Yeah, I have, every time she feels really sick to the like, she, like, falls over into, like, the wall or has to sit down, take a drink.
Greg: Okay. My next one is any time she pukes. Oh, does that kind of fall in line with that or is that a separate one?
Joe: That could be a separate one. Because sometimes you just, like, falls over. And there’s some times where it’s real gross and she’s throwing up and. Yeah, I have, anytime the camera is spinning with the action. So there’s some fun moments with that.
Greg: Oh, what I totally ever went to. Oh my gosh, there’s a lot of overlap. I don’t think either of us have ever had that one. Yeah, for these other movies. But this is the one we’re like, now it’s time. Camera flip. It’s your time. Yeah. Anytime they say boom boom, lemon, take a drink.
Joe: I cannot for the life of me remember the name of that. For the website, for our outro. So I don’t have it. But okay, I am.
Greg: Assuming you do. What? I don’t know what you’re talking about.
Joe: I have any time. There’s kind of a reference to to time or how much time she has left, which isn’t a lot, but there are a few in there.
Greg: It’s a good one. My next one is super classy, potentially too classy for drinking games, but every time she gets a haircut, oh yeah.
Joe: It’s awesome. That’s so awesome. Every time it feels like you’re watching a graphic novel. Take a drink.
Greg: Yeah, especially that car chase. It looked kind of fake, right?
Joe: Yeah, yeah. And the first time I saw it, it was like I could. I think I went back and rewound it, and I was like, oh, no, this is what they’re trying to do. Like it’s it kind of had a little bit of kind of Robert Rodriguez and
Greg: Oh my.
Joe: God. I blanked on this movie the last time we talked about it.
Greg: Spy kids, you’re talking about Spy Kids.
Joe: Yeah obviously spy.
Greg: 3D. Yeah. Wait let me finish 3D.
Joe: Yes. Sin city is what I was actually thinking of.
Greg: Yeah. No, I agree it was cool. And it was also like, where on earth did this come from? And we’ll never see it again.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: So what are we doing here?
Joe: Yeah. There are, there are a couple things like that where I wanted a little bit more of like, is this just the madness that she’s going through of, like, her mortality and that just kind of everything is turning into a cartoon or not. And then out there.
Greg: So this is my last one. Every time someone shoots glass.
Joe: If you’re, in the.
Greg: Last.
Joe: Third of this.
Greg: Movie. Yeah, a little rough, right? So, you know, grab coconut water for this one. Yeah, you’re got need. But also, every time someone shoots the glass, someone in a Hans Gruber voice in the room has to yell, shoot the glass.
Greg: That’s a spot on Hans Gruber. So thank you. Thank you. All right Joe. Well, I think it’s time for us to finally get to Joe’s trope Lightning round aka signs. You might be watching a great bad movie.
Joe: Yeah. Strap in because there’s a lot. We have the $300 haircut that she gives herself. We have her being punched in the face, and she smiles and spits blood. We have two people shooting at each other and they both run out of bullets at the same time. She has her stealing a car that she just miraculously finds a door open and is able to get into and drive off.
Joe: Yep. There is a good guy who’s about our good girl who’s about to get shot and that person is. Then the person who’s holding the gun on them is shot. Kind of in the classic, you don’t know, did they get shot or not to boot? She’s the best at something. Revenge is the driver of the protagonist. In this case, we’re on one last job.
Joe: We have kind of the henchmen who are allowed to hurt her. We have explosion on impact from a car crash. We have finding out a critical piece of information right at the end. That probably would have shortened this movie by about half. When. Oh, what was that? When Arnie just discovers that they’re going to. Oh, yeah, that old house that so-and-so has that.
Joe: Yeah. You know, probably would have been really fun to know earlier. We have a bag full of guns. We have fairly amazing recovery time, even though she is dying from radiation poisoning because she’s able to sustain herself throughout, medical care that she kind of gives herself. I think she stitches herself up. She finds clothes that fit her perfectly in the hospital and then in another place.
Joe: So twice in this movie and then checking to see if a gun is loaded multiple times in this. So those are the tropes.
Greg: Let me ask you one clarifying question. For somebody who maybe has never listen to the show before, you said henchmen who are allowed to hurt her. Can you expound? I think we need a longer description.
Joe: Yeah I think about that for the uninitiated. Yeah. So basically in these movies that we watch, there’s usually a hierarchy of the bad guys.
Greg:
Joe: Usually the bad guy has a main henchman that can sometimes be the bad guy or works for the bad guy. That person you will assume is going to have the hardest, the biggest fight scene with the protagonist.
Greg: Right?
Joe: The person guarding the fence who has no line, then this is going to die very easily and inflict zero damage on the protagonist. And so, you know, as you get through a movie, there’s a scene where, like the leader of the henchmen trying to get Annie and the, when she’s in the bathroom. So there’s a, there’s a more protracted fight scene together, so he is allowed to inflict damage on the protagonist, or the other henchman may hit her, but don’t inflict any damage as basically.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: It’s kind of like a video game.
Greg: A low level henchman would never actually, like, really hurt the good guy halfway through the movie, right? It has to be the top bad guy or top henchman at the end of the movie, going after exactly like.
Joe: A boss fight in a video.
Greg: Game, you know? Right? Yeah.
Joe: That’s what you’re you’re amping up to.
Greg: Yeah. Same concept. Totally. All right. Joe. Well, hey, there are like some really elephant in the room questions that I think we need to address before we finish this episode here. Are you ready for important questions?
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: Joe, did Kate hold up then in 2021? Sort of. Okay, I feel like.
Joe: You know, it’s I think it did, but it’s not. You know, this is one of those movies where I’m kind of I’m getting more down on it as we’ve talked about it. It’s weird.
Greg: Yeah. Okay. Well, how about now? Does it hold up now?
Joe: I think it actually holds up a little bit better now. I still really like this movie, so I think it does. I think it holds up. What about you?
Greg: Here’s what I was wondering as I was writing these out. What is it about this movie that will make it hold up better as time goes on? What are the what’s the secret sauce to this movie that you think will really capture this moment? It’ll be like, they just don’t make movies like that anymore. Does it have that?
Joe: I don’t know that it does have that.
Greg: Yeah, I think either.
Joe: It’s too derivative of other films made by this group of people even, that are better. That’s I if it’s anything.
Greg: Yeah, it’s Mary Elizabeth Winstead.
Joe: Yeah. Agreed.
Greg: Yeah. Okay. How are you this other good guy in this movie?
Joe: Not really.
Greg: They don’t really sell, like.
Joe: The good guy or the good girl Alice at all.
Greg: No character says you don’t know what you’re dealing with here. Yeah, Kate is the best in the world at blah blah, blah. Yeah. They don’t. What about the selling? The bad guy? How hard do they sell the bad guy?
Joe: Not really either. I’m not even 100% sure who the bad guys really are. They’re kind of trying to find them and they there’s a little bit of, like a twist at the end on who the bad guy is. And you know what’s happening.
Greg: Yeah, yeah. This is like the the first rung of selling the bad guy in a movie is I shouldn’t even be talking about this or they’ll come and get me. And she has that conversation with the guy who poisoned her. Like I can’t even talk about this or they’ll find us and kill us. So that’s kind.
Joe: Of. Yeah. That’s about all.
Greg: That’s the entry level selling the bad. Yeah. Yeah. Joe, why is there romance in this movie?
Joe: Really? Isn’t any romance in this movie.
Greg: Or is it? Yeah. It’s glorious. It’s just right up your alley. Yeah.
Joe: Awesome. Hardhearted world.
Greg: I personally think we should have had flashbacks to her amazing romance with Gosling. It’s a point.
Joe: I mean, anytime you get to put Ryan Gosling in a movie, I’m in.
Greg: So especially if it’s funny. Gosling. Yeah. I’m not talking about The Notebook. Yeah, I’m talking about man.
Joe: That’s probably why you.
Greg: Think I’m a great man. Sure.
Greg: So now our Gray Man episode has gone too. I don’t know, it’s like that. That’ll to be like. Yeah, Gosling was funny. Roll credits. All right, next important question. Are we bad people for loving this movie? I don’t know that I love this movie. So, Joe, do you think you’re a bad person for loving this movie?
Joe: Probably.
Greg: Okay, great. Does it deserve a sequel? Deserve.
Joe: No. I mean, I think some movies are just one and done.
Greg: Yeah. Especially when the character dies at the end.
Joe: Yeah, especially when that happens. Now, that didn’t stop extraction two from happening. So it’s.
Greg: Good point. Good point.
Joe: But I don’t think it deserves a sequel. I’d watch one, but I’d watch most sequels to the movies we’ve done. I don’t think there’s a movie we’ve done that. I wouldn’t watch the sequel.
Greg: It’s yeah, yeah, we haven’t talked about this, I don’t think on the podcast, but we went to go see The Accountant two right after we did a podcast about the accounting one, and it was such a fun experience for us. It was great. And you famously kind of didn’t like the accountants.
Joe: County is better, I think.
Greg: Yeah, we’ll get to the accountant. I’m saying, no, this doesn’t deserve a sequel. But Mary Elizabeth Winstead should make like a hundred more action movies.
Joe: Agreed.
Greg: I don’t think this is the one she should keep making, but I do think she should keep doing it. Does this movie deserve a prequel?
Joe: I’d allow it, and I’m going to mix this in with the how can it be fixed? It’s a prequel in the bullet train world.
Greg: The prequel of this movie takes place in Bullet Train, so this movie in the timeline takes place after Bullet Train sent this.
Joe: Before Bullet Train. I can see it like a prequel of whatever secret society that Brad Pitt works with. And Sandra Bullock is like in his ear. So Sandra Bullock is the voice behind Woody Harrelson. And yeah, sending her off. And so it’s somehow connected. It’s got to be really loose. It doesn’t need to be. You know, we can have Ryan Reynolds making a 32nd cameo and being done with it.
Joe: So.
Greg: So the prequel to Kate is also a prequel to Bullet Train. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I’m in I’m into it. Okay. Let’s do it.
Joe: All right. And David Lee just got to direct though. That’s my other David.
Greg: Leads directs or Steven Spielberg. Yeah obviously they go direct. Christopher Nolan also allowed. Yeah I just get the best. But Kate is working with Sandra Bullock in. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay, well, that’s gonna be better than this movie. A rare yes on. Does it deserve a prequel from you? Yep.
Joe: Very rare.
Greg: All right. Joe, should this have been nominated for Best Picture at the Oscars in 2022?
Joe: There’s no way that I could say yes to that. But what was nominated that year?
Greg: You know what? I didn’t even look because I was such a hard now for me. Yeah. All right. Joe, how can Kate the movie be fixed? AKA who should be in the remake? We have a tough time answering both of these. Yeah. Separately. Yeah. So.
Joe: Well, I kind of already spoiled this answer, but it’s David Lynch directing the prequel in the bullet Train universe.
Greg: Okay, so this movie stays as is.
Joe: This movie stays as is. Okay, okay. How would you fix this movie?
Greg: I think I’m gonna leave this one alone. Yeah. I don’t have a fix for this one.
Joe: I think that says all we need to say about this movie. I think it’s okay. The more I think about it. Properly rated by, you know, the popcorn meter, you know, five out of ten, you know, there’s some really great stuff and there’s some pieces that falls flat.
Greg: And moment, listen, if you’re batting 500, you’re the best hitter in the league.
Joe: Exactly. Yeah.
Greg: Well, this is probably one of the best important questions that we have then. Joe, what album is this movie?
Joe: I spent so long on.
Greg: This.
Joe: So I picked an album from 2021 when this came out, which is kind of my go to move when I’m really struggling as I go to the year the movie came out, just to see what’s out there, and I went with Adele 30, because it is derivative of every other Adele album out there.
Greg: Wow.
Joe: And probably not as good.
Greg: But Adele 30 is a great album. Is it?
Joe: Is it 20 or whatever? Her best album is?
Greg: Oh, it’s 30, the one with Halo on it?
Joe: No. Okay, that’s the one before that’s like 27 or something like that.
Greg: Name a song on 30 that we should put on our Spotify playlist. Great bad movies, music?
Joe: I have no idea.
Greg: I just get to choose whatever song I want.
Joe: First one.
Greg: Right off.
Joe: The first track, obviously.
Greg: All right, well, here’s where I took this. What album is this? This is a good movie. Like, I, I enjoyed this movie. I didn’t love this movie. But if somebody in like five years said, remember that movie? Kate? I would probably go, yeah, Kate was Kate had some stuff to it, right? Kate was pretty good. But I think I’m gonna I think this is a movie that kind of doesn’t exist in the world anymore.
Greg: I think it’s kind of a movie that people will forget about. Yeah. So I was trying to think of a great album that I continually forget about. There’s a band called Michigander. If you ever heard of Michigander.
Joe: I’ve heard of them, but I could not tell you one song. Yeah, or anything about them.
Greg: In 2019, Michigander put out this EP called Where Do We Go From Here? And it was so good and I listened to it all the time. Throughout 2020 and 2021. It’s like a five song AP. I listen to it all the time and then entirely forgot about them. And so I was scrolling through like albums that I had added to my library a long time ago.
Greg: Which one did I love and like was a high mark of the year, like top 2 or 3 releases of the year for me, and then just completely forgot it existed. And it’s Michigander. Where do we go from here? I listened to this EP today while I was thinking about this, and during the fifth song, which is kind of a mellow, kind of contemplative song, I fully got the chills and had like a real moment.
Greg: I was like, gosh, these guys are so good. Like, I’m going to totally go see them next time they’re in town. So thank you, Kate, for making me remember Michigander as a band. And where do we go from here? That EP I recommend. It’s so good, I loved it.
Joe: That’s awesome.
Greg: But spoiler alert you might forget about it. I feel so do it. All right, Joe, it’s time for us to rate this movie. Great bad movie. Good bad movie. Okay. Bad movie, bad bad movie. Worst case scenario. Awful bad movie. Where do you rank this movie?
Joe: I’m on the cusp between okay, bad movie and good bad movie.
Greg: Okay.
Joe: And I’ve been going back and forth, but I think this is a really good, okay bad name. I can’t really rate it higher. I think without Mary Elizabeth Winstead in this, this is maybe even a bad, bad movie.
Greg: Yeah. But yeah.
Joe: She saves it for me but doesn’t push it to me in the good, bad movie territory. So it’s not okay. What about you? Where do you have it? Right.
Greg: I’ll go right there with you. It’s a really good, okay, bad movie. So when it comes to Joe’s pick, though, in retrospect, how do you feel about this being your Joe’s Pick movie? Is it is it what you remembered? It to me? Is watching it this week different than the past?
Joe: There’s only so far that a great actor can carry a movie like this, when really the second star of the show are the action scenes. And aside from my favorite one, which is really great, but Tea Room one, all the rest of them I have forgotten I like. I went back when I watched it and rewound it and watched it again because I enjoyed it that much.
Joe: Yeah, I like this movie. I will always think of it fondly, but it’s not amazing and I’m happy I picked it because sometimes they can’t all be bangers.
Greg: Hashtag. No regrets.
Joe: Yeah. No regrets.
Greg: Awesome. Well, Joe, we did it. We had Joe’s pick. Yeah.
Joe: We had the conversation that needed to be had about Kate.
Greg: Listener. If you liked this episode and you’re listening somewhere that isn’t like a podcast app, find us on your favorite podcast app and, follow us there. And if you like what you hear, rate and review us there. That’s pretty much one of the best ways you can help out our podcast. If you enjoy watching great bad movies with your friends, the way that Joe and I do.
Joe: And respond and send in your your picks for your own great bad movies, maybe you’ll even get to join or send us a voice note on why you like this, and we’ll listen to you on the air and take total shots at you the entire time. So you know, no pressure. But if you’re not funny and hilarious, it’s not making the cut.
Greg: Wow. It got dark again. That’s weird.
Joe: Yeah. Sorry. I like to raise the bar.
Greg: I feel like what you’re saying is we’d like to hear from you, but only.
Joe: If you’re perfect.
Greg: But on the outside, you’re saying. And we will take you down a notch. Yeah.
Joe: Exactly.
Greg: That would be amazing if somebody sent us a voice memo, and we won’t promise to play it on the air. But there’s a very good chance we would if somebody actually sent us a voice memo. You can email it to us at Great Bad Movies show at gmail.com. All the ways to find us can be found at Great Bad movies.com.
Greg: Reach out to us over Instagram. Great bad movie show. All right Joe. Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry to interrupt what we were just doing. But listen, this has been great, but I just know the time and stores are about to close, and I need to drive all over town and find some Boom-Boom lemon, because a friend of mine has been a broken record about finding her stuff, so I should go.
Joe: Nice. Yeah. Yeah, that that makes sense. I’m running late, too. I’m having dinner with Vladimir Putin and Kate. I sure hope I don’t get poisoned with polonium again.
Greg: I mean, we can deal with 210, but 2 or 4 different story. Yeah, 200 foreign. Woody Harrelson might hold your hand, but you tell him. Yeah. Well, that works for me, because I need to go find that. I just do this for fun. Sometimes I find passed out people around town, and it takes off his breath. I’m doing the peace sign like Arnie did and in the taxi.
Joe: I’m so proud and annoyed that I’m doing the exact same thing.
Greg: All right, well, that works for me that you’re doing exactly what I’m doing because I need to go do something else. And that is, find more stimulants to inject in my leg to get through the rest of his day.
Joe: That’s good. That’s good. Funny you should mention that. I lost my EpiPen. That’s okay. I found this other one on the ground. It should be fine. What’s the worst thing that could be in there? You know?
Greg: You know what, I. This has been really good. I mean, don’t get me wrong. This has been incredible. I love everything we’re doing, but my window for doing this show is closing. Just much like seasonals. Window for shooting people was in the movie Kate. So I need to let you know that the window is closing. And why do people keep calling me seasonal now?
Greg: It’s very weird.
Joe: It’s very strange. Anyway, I’ve got to go babysit this mobster’s daughter. Who in their right mind would try to kidnap her? It should be easy money for me.
Greg: Yeah, I think you’re good.
Joe: You know. Yeah, I think I should be fine.
Greg: I’m out. Do you have any more?
Joe: I’ve got to go to the hospital. I’m, Someone, cut off all my fingers while they were giving themselves a haircut. So I think I deserved it, but that’s all right.
Greg: All right. Well, that works for me, because I gotta go out there, so I will see you soon. They soon.