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This week, on Perfectly Serviceable Action Movies:
A heartwarming story about redemption and drapery, with great performances, direction, story, action, and um…. Did you know there was a 6th Terminator movie? A lot of people don’t. It was a proper sequel to T2, and it was incredible. 5 years ago, critics and audiences alike praised this movie, but… It doesn’t seem to exist anymore. That all changes here and now.
Mackenzie Davis, Natalia Reyes and Gabriel Luna are quite good at the core of the story, and then Linda Hamilton and Arnold Schwarzenegger show up to create a best case legacy sequel. It’s time for us to finally have the conversation that needed to happen about Terminator: Dark Fate.
Before we go on, where do you stand on bad guys that can turn their hands into swordy things? If that sounds like something, this is the movie for you.
Note: This transcript has been auto-generated, so… You know… It’s not our fault.
Greg: Happy New Year and welcome to Great Bad Movies, a show that has recently discovered that there was a sixth Terminator movie and needed to talk at length about it. Hey, we usually don’t do any ads or anything on the show, but we wanted to say a few things up top. The first is you can find us on Instagram.
Greg: Great bad movies show. You can always reach out to us through our website. Great Bad movies.com. And if you would go to wherever you’re listening to your podcasts and give us a great review on there, that would be so helpful for us. It’s kind of the main way that people can find our show. So thank you so much for that.
Greg: Before we get going, I just wanted to say that my microphone in this episode, for some reason, had some kind of crazy blip. We still thought we should release this episode, but I just wanted to give a little bit of a heads up that we had a little mic issue. We figured out what it was. It won’t be there in the next episode.
Greg: And sorry about that, but, it’s also not so bad. So, you know, just pretend you’re in a zoom meeting with somebody whose internet is is a little bit, Clippy, I guess, is the word I would use. So with that, let’s get to the Great Bad Movies episode on Terminator Dark Fate. Joe, in the movie we watched this week.
Greg: The protagonists had to go from one country to another. Have you ever gone from one country to another? And was it by chance when you and I were hanging out way back in the day before we ever connected?
Joe: Yes, I have. Well, yes, I’ve crossed many borders on family and other travel, but we lived in Bellingham, Washington together.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: That’s where we met at Baskin-Robbins. All those many years ago.
Greg: Where friends meet friends. Really?
Joe: Exactly, exactly. And we would often just drive around as kids.
Greg: Basically, that’s what you do.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: When you’re in high school.
Joe: Yeah. Driving around, listening to music, talking about movies, talking about music, trying to make the perfect mix. And we would go to Canada because that it really close to Bellingham at about an hour to Vancouver. Yeah. And so we would drive up there.
Greg: I think we’re.
Joe: Having an 1819 and trying to look for alcohol because you could drink at 19 there. Not that we I think we’re ever successful of that. But that was no.
Greg: The.
Joe: What we tried. But I remember one time we went up to Vancouver and we ended up at a Denny’s pretty late at night, and we often ended up at Denny’s in Bellingham as well, so many times. Where else are you going to go as a kid who can’t go into a bar and right hang out with, drink coffee and eat Grand slam breakfast at.
Greg: 12:00.
Joe: At night? That was awesome.
Greg: That’s just what we did.
Joe: Yeah, that’s what we did. But this time we we went there. It was super crowded I remember this. And we got our food. We ordered it. And then our waitress just never came back with the check. Yeah. And we waited for a long time. Yeah.
Greg: 45 minutes were.
Joe: Probably in that range.
Greg: Yeah. Yeah.
Joe: And then we made the decision to just leave. And so we did. And I remember we got out the door and we just looked at as fast as we could run. I can’t believe we’re away from.
Greg: Have no memory of this, by the way. Yeah.
Joe: I can’t believe we did it either. But it’s the only time I’ve dined in that in my entire life. So I missed that. Yeah.
Greg: So we were very much like in shooter. We were, like, eight kilometers into a country where it’s supposed to be in.
Joe: Yeah. I think you had just showed me a picture of someone back home.
Greg: That was Sarah.
Joe: Sarah who had made a dress that you got really excited about. Yeah. Yeah. And then chopper’s out of nowhere. And, man, it was crazy, so we had to run.
Greg: You called me Donny back then? Yeah, exactly. So, you know, my backup question for this thing was, you know, we watched a movie where people would travel back in time to, like, right or wrong. Of all the things in our history, would you travel back to pay that check of all the money?
Joe: I love that that would. Yeah, that’s the wrong we went, right? Instead of like, staying in touch for 20 years.
Greg: And yeah, we would.
Joe: We would go back and pay that one check. That was probably a $15 bill. The back back in like.
Greg: 1994, $8 with the exchange rate. Yeah. Yeah.
Joe: Yeah. And if we do that, who knows what the future holds. That’s a small change that, you know, changes the course of Canada forever.
Greg: Butterfly effect on this is incredible. Okay, well, let’s get to the show.
Joe: Let’s do it.
Clip: My name is Sarah Connor.
Clip: August 29th, 1997, was supposed to be Judgment Day. But I changed the future. You saved 3 billion lives. Enough of a resumé for you.
Greg: No. You may have changed the future, but you didn’t change our fate. Why do you care what happens to her?
Clip: Because I was her.
Clip: I am going to help you protect the girl.
Greg: Nobody else is gonna die because of me.
Greg: If you don’t make it.
Clip: Everybody dies and this is all over. I am going to kill you.
Clip: I understand.
Clip: I’ll be back.
Clip: In the year 2019. We are celebrating the five year.
Greg: Anniversary of Terminator Dark Fate. We are talking about Tim Miller of Deadpool fame, directing Linda Hamilton, Arnold Schwarzenegger starring, of course, with Mackenzie Davis, Natalia Reys, Gabriel Luna. That might be all the people we need to mention, but it’s also written with James Cameron, produced by James Cameron. That’s probably the most crucial thing you could know about this particular Terminator movie.
Greg: Joe Skye Tucker First of all, had you ever seen this movie before?
Joe: I had not seen this movie before.
Greg: Okay, okay, so I need to change the question. Is Terminator Dark Fate a great bad movie?
Joe: It’s definitely a movie we should review on this podcast.
Greg: Okay, so it counts as a great bad movie in one way.
Joe: Yeah, and one way or another, it has some awesome action scenes. And then.
Greg: Yeah, it.
Joe: Feels like and I think and you probably know more about some of the backstory of how it was made, but it feels like it kind of assumes that the three other sequels just never happened. Are two other sequels.
Greg: Right? This is the sixth Terminator movie. Yeah. And so kind of assumes that Terminator three, four and five never happened.
Joe: With that in mind, it is 100% our movie because it is.
Greg: The Mission.
Joe: Impossible two. If you will, from the.
Greg: Terminator of the franchise Terminator movies.
Joe: Of the three.
Greg: Good Terminator movies.
Joe: It has the greatest hero entrance I’ve maybe ever seen in a movie. When Linda Hamilton and I don’t think I really knew, I think I knew she might have be in it. But like her entrance in this movie is the most epic, perfect moment in the movie. Yeah, I mean, it’s almost like you should pause this podcast and go watch a clip of it on YouTube.
Joe: It’s that good. So I just did it before this episode, and it was so amazing to just watch that again. It’s just a lot of her shooting, but like the most badass moment. It’s a worthy sequel to it. It assumes a lot from the viewer that you have watched at least the first two. Yeah, so it doesn’t bog you down in a lot of the backstory.
Joe: You kind of get into it a little bit later into the movie. Yeah, but it just kind of like, here’s the action. They’re coming from the future and okay. Go right. And so I appreciated that about it. Yeah. So I pose it back to you. You’ve seen this more than I have. Yeah. What’s your stance? Great. Bad movie wise on Dark Fate.
Greg: This movie is so surprisingly great. We talked about Quantum of Solace last week. You said it was a good, bad movie. I went right over the line. I went to great Bad movie. But we were about in the same spot with that movie. Yeah. Is this movie better than Quantum of Solace? Wow.
Joe: I think it is better than Quantum of Solace as a movie, because for those who I have, we spent 2.5 hours dissecting, spent 40 more minutes on Quantum of Solace in the movie.
Greg: Is that what we should? Sometimes the conversation that needs to be had is longer than the movie itself.
Joe: Exactly. And I would say that that movie suffered from not having a writer. And we talked about that a lot. Kind of like our a clear throughline. This movie definitely had a writer and a story that they wanted to tell, and it got clear. Acts one, two, and three, it’s all kind of leading to one spot. And so I think from a movie perspective, it is better probably some of the action scenes and Quantum of Solace.
Joe: I would take over this, but this movie is, as an action movie, really good. I love the action sequences in it that felt, even though there’s a lot of CGI that happens within it, with kind of with the Terminators and then the latest model, whatever you have, 9 or 9 or whatever it.
Greg: Is, right?
Joe: It felt visceral, and that’s what I always appreciate about it. So yeah, and knowing that he’s had done Deadpool before this, he’s a very capable action director.
Greg: Okay, so my take on this movie is that it? If you’re going to do a rehash of a Terminator movie and up the ante here and there, but also kind of continue telling the story, this movie does that really well, I think. And the action scenes are awesome, better than Quantum of Solace. And in some ways much more visceral, like big truck driving down the road and like smashing into cars and making them fly to the side of the road, that kind of action.
Greg: But they’re just a lot of moments in this movie where you kind of like, oh, wow. Like in our last episode when they jumped out of the plane and they went down the sinkhole and didn’t have quite enough time to open up their chute. And it was a really, like, hard fall. That’s a lot of this movie, a lot of just like visceral kind of gut punches.
Greg: And I think it’s a pretty emotional story. It’s basically the story of three women, and it was supposed to set up a whole new Terminator series, and for whatever reason, I loved this movie. Critics like this movie. People liked this movie, but it was not a success. And they were like, well, I guess we’re not doing this anymore.
Greg: And so I just think this is a movie that almost doesn’t exist. You almost can’t mention this movie to anyone and have them say, wait, what they did. There was another one of those people just completely derailed from the Terminator series. So I think this is just a surprising little. It’s like a little needle in a haystack. It’s just like a little treasure that you find amongst a bunch of big dumb movies or great bad movies, however you want to say it.
Greg: I think this is a great, bad movie. So much so that I was like, we got to do Terminator Dark Fate. I think it’s, like you were saying, like when Linda Hamilton shows up, it’s just like, what? Where has she been? And she really kind of had abandoned Hollywood. She does not have great feelings towards the town of Hollywood and basically just didn’t want anything to do with it.
Greg: And James Cameron, her ex-husband, called up and said, Will you be Sarah Connor again? And I had to talk her into it. She agreed to do it. She had a bunch of changes to the script. I don’t know exactly what those changes were, but she kind of bent the script towards what she was willing to come back for.
Greg: And the thing I really love about this film is we live in a world now where when someone in their 60s comes back, there’s kind of like that. Have they had any work done? Check. And I don’t want to shame anyone who’s having work done, but I really it’s so striking that Linda Hamilton does not seem to have had any work done and is just a gloriously aging person who is so incredible in this film.
Greg: It’s just like, well, thank goodness we need more Linda Hamilton’s out there. Her just like, I’m going to just blow your socks off and I’m not playing the game. And that also happens to fit this character really well. And I really, really, really loved that about this movie that Linda Hamilton is just Linda Hamilton all over the place.
Greg: Yeah. She’s incredible. She’s so incredible. Yeah.
Joe: I my biggest note about it, there’s a they have an opening scene. And I know that this is like the big thing that Hollywood is doing where they’re doing the de-aging of actors. And can we just stop like just stop with it? I know it’s like we have the technology to do it. Sure, but it still looks animated to me.
Joe: Yeah, even in like newer films. And I kind of give this movie a pass for it because the opening scene we have Sarah Connor and her son and Arnold Schwarzenegger kind of from the Terminator two era kind of timeline, I think is what we’re supposed to think on it. Yeah, but they’re de-aged and it’s kind of like the the setup for the film in a lot of ways, and it just looks cartoonish to me.
Joe: It’s like to me, bad CGI, and I give it a little bit of a pass. But these other movies, I know Tom Hanks has one coming out, and they did one with Robert De Niro and it’s like, just stop. Let people be there. It’s kind of your point about Linda Hamilton, like, let her be this kickass woman in her 60s who is just.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: Doing everything that you’d want from an action star in this movie. So the small critique and a great film and a fun film, but yeah, just stop. You know, we don’t need we don’t need Edward Furlong, the aged.
Greg: Right. So you’re saying they just didn’t look good? There is a scene that takes place in like 1992. I guess it’s like right after the events of Terminator two, Linda Hamilton is on vacation with 13 year old Edward Furlong. I guess I don’t know how old he was in that movie, but he was like 13 when they filmed it.
Greg: And then Arnold Schwarzenegger, a Terminator, shows up and the way they did that was they put digital faces on actual people. So it was like real people. And then they changed their faces. And you’re saying it looked horrible to you. Yes.
Joe: It does look like digital faces on people.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: It’s not going to reduce my rating of this movie. But I noticed it instantly and I just didn’t like it.
Greg: In this movie starts with the opening studio logos and then they’re interspersing with an old tape of Linda Hamilton. Did that look like a take from Terminator two that they didn’t use or did that do you think they did digital de-aging in that as well? Shows her like arrested and she’s like being interrogated. She’s saying that Skynet is going to take over the world or something.
Joe: Yeah, that did feel more like an outtake or something from Terminator two.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: I mean, you could have done it any number of ways where you have, you know, a voice over of Linda Hamilton. Or newspaper shots of John Connor has been killed. There’s a million ways you get to the same conclusion that he has been killed.
Greg: Right.
Joe: So I think that’s the piece that was like, and to me, movies, when they’re filmed exclusively in front of a green screen, just lose something to me.
Greg: Did this movie look like it was in front of a green screen to you?
Joe: That scene did that opening scene. It just felt like they have a huge green screen behind everything. They set up like a little restaurant.
Greg: Like on a beach or something.
Joe: Yeah. Yeah. But like I didn’t feel like there, I felt like the beach was completely digitally put in after the fact.
Greg: And
Joe: You know I was like, well we have a tiki bar so we might as well just put it up on the corner. We’ll put a green screen behind it and no one will notice. Yeah, I feel like sometimes Fast and Furious movies now really suffer from that, where it’s very clear that they’re just everyone is standing in front of a green screen.
Joe: Yeah. And you can kind of feel that like around their faces. And just so it just bothers me as like I like put them in the scene. I mean, I think that’s what Quantum of Solace does so well is it puts the actors in the scenes and it’s beautiful. And they put like the costar of the film are the locations in a lot of ways.
Greg: Yeah, yeah, this.
Joe: One now, it was 1/32 scene in this film, so I’m spending ten times longer berating it than it is even in the movie. But it stood out for me as like, I’m tired of the age. I’m tired of. Yeah. Yes, you can do it. Should you do it? Is the question again, do something new with it, or you’re just going to the age.
Joe: Arnold Schwarzenegger and Linda Hamilton and Edward Furlong are not even use them. Just use digital copies of their face. It’s. But maybe that’s, you know, there’s a meta point. Maybe I missed it and they’re you know, AI is coming for us and here’s that’s here’s proof, but probably not.
Greg: Honestly, I thought it was pretty amazing. I thought it looked pretty good. Oh.
Joe: You’re wrong.
Greg: Yeah. I mean, if I was right, you would agree with me. Yeah. I mean, I thought that Arnold Schwarzenegger didn’t look like Arnold Schwarzenegger. He looked like, slightly different Arnold Schwarzenegger. And I feel like he chose someone with slightly bigger muscles than he had in 1992 to play that part, but I thought she looked like she did in Terminator two, and I thought Edward Furlong looked like he did in Terminator two.
Greg: I thought it was kind of amazing. If it was the whole movie, I would hate it. And I thought, well, you’re you’re going to say in the de-aging is that this is a process that happens to people, not even in flashback scenes. Vin Diesel’s face is digitally enhanced in every scene that he’s in, and Fast and Furious movies.
Greg: Now that it looks so fake to me. Yeah, so I really dislike that. I guess if it’s like a storytelling point anyways. Well, it didn’t bother me and I don’t think it bothered anybody else to watch it either. I think you’re the only one.
Joe: Okay. All right, I’ll take it. I will hold that mantle proudly.
Greg: You’re the star. But, what we see is I think that was very divisive for this film. Not. I mean, who cares, honestly. But killing off John Connor at the very beginning of this movie was kind of a bold move, storytelling wise.
Joe: I have to say, I love that I was like, okay, this is not your usual Terminator, and they twist that trope around because really, the first two for just looking at that first two is really around. Yeah, the first one, they’re trying to kill Sarah Connor because John Connor becomes the leader of the resistance. And the second one, he’s he’s around and they’re trying to kill him so that he doesn’t become the leader of the resistance.
Joe: Right? I’m saying we’re killing him. And what’s going to happen now?
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: And then we kind of assume and they make reference to it. The main character, Danny, is then, you know, we’re trying to save her. And the thought is that, you know, she is the mother of the end. And it turned out not to be that it’s her. She becomes the leader of the resistance in the future. And we’re trying to save her.
Joe: Not because to protect her womb for some male progeny to come into the world. Right. So that it’s got some strong. I mean, one has got three kickass women. Yeah.
Greg: As the leads, Mackenzie Davis stars as Grace. She’s the first Terminator that comes back in time. We think in that first scene where she comes back, she’s a Terminator. She comes back like 48 years arriving in Mexico to protect Italia res. Danny. So we’ve got Mackenzie Davis, we got Italia res, and then Linda Hamilton shows up and that’s basically the movie.
Greg: Gabriel Luna shows up and he’s a real Terminator. We find out that Mackenzie Davis is an enhanced human.
Joe: Yeah. So we have some, you know, one, we have three kickass women in this leading the film. And some feminist themes around twisting the narrative of what the first two. I mean, the other ones are that too, but the first two Terminators, if we’re kind of looking at them as a trilogy, excluding the other three. Yeah, in the middle of that.
Joe: And so I really appreciate that.
Greg: Those are all about John Connor as well though, right? Yeah, yeah.
Joe: Yeah, I’ll protect John Connor at all costs essentially.
Greg: Right.
Joe: And he’s a you know, he’s a character. He’s an adult in 1 or 2 of them I know they’re all they all kind of mushed together in my head. Honestly.
Greg: They’re mostly unsuccessful. And I would love to get back to what you’re talking about. But something that happened after Terminator two is James Cameron sold the rights to the Terminator franchise, and they didn’t revert back to him until 2019.
Joe: Oh, interesting.
Greg: And so the reason Terminator three, four and five are just not the same as because James Cameron wasn’t around and he was, you know, knee deep in avatar movies. And so he hired Tim Miller after Deadpool and Tim Miller has an effects shop. He’s kind of an effects guy. They work together to make this movie in. This movie came out right when the rights kind of reverted back to James Cameron.
Greg: So that’s why they kind of discredited Terminator three, four and five and went back to what James Cameron did back in the day.
Joe: Yeah. And and it shows. I mean, it’s it kind of it’s back to its roots. It’s a worthy third installment. Yeah. Of them.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: Yeah I still would probably hold Terminator two as the high watermark of the franchise just based on nobody had seen effects like that done like that. You know, it was kind of revolutionary with a 1990, 92.
Greg: It’s 84 in 92 or Terminator one and two. Yeah.
Joe: And then Terminator one, which is a movie I haven’t seen in forever. So I’m really hazy on that one. But, you know, it was another movie I hadn’t really seen. It was kind of had that 80s action vibe to it.
Greg: But.
Joe: Terminator two is just everywhere. I saw it in the theater. It was just I had never seen a movie like that, so it felt timely. And then off the rails with the next three, and then we’re kind of back on track with this one, for sure.
Greg: So the first movie tells the story of a Terminator going back in time to kill John Connor. Terminators were made by basically AI in the future to wipe out the human race. In the second movie, they basically tell the same story, but it’s that Arnold Schwarzenegger is the Terminator set back as a good Terminator, like a hacked Terminator to protect John Connor.
Greg: So it’s like the same story, but they kind of reverse it. And then Robert Patrick of Die Hard to Fame comes back, you know, you know, if you’re going to be in the Skywalker Annex, you’re gonna go places in this in this business.
Joe: Exactly.
Greg: What do I look like to you? A sitting duck, probably the best Terminator. Like they really did kind of go from slow, big metal Terminator and Arnold Schwarzenegger to the liquid metal special effects, but also just as an idea, it’s like there’s just no way you could beat this thing. You know? I don’t know if they’ve ever actually beat that idea in all six films.
Joe: I don’t think so. Yeah. I mean, this one is very similar to that, although instead of silver, it’s black, you know, and it’s got the ability to like, pull its skeleton out and have that be a Terminator as well. So it’s kind of right referencing it. But yeah, it’s basically the same thing as, as Robert Patrick’s.
Greg: Slightly different, but basically, you know, like it’s the next step. They probably had better ideas and they were like, let’s save the better ideas for future movies. And this will just be one step better in that the outside of the exoskeleton, I never know which one is the endoskeleton and which one is the XL skeleton.
Joe: Exo is outside and that was inside.
Greg: Okay, so the endoskeleton looks like a terminator. And the exoskeleton is the liquid metal that can look like whatever it comes in contact with. So Gabriel Luna shows up and he’s naked because you have to be naked apparently when you time travel and in this movie everything freezes before they show up and they don’t show up like on the ground.
Greg: They show up in the middle of the air. Yeah, they have not figured out how to do anything close to the ground, but he shows up and he, like, touches a shirt. And then just it looks like he’s wearing that shirt and he kind of changes the metal to look like he’s wearing that shirt. So I know it’s pretty good.
Greg: I’ll take it.
Joe: I like that, yeah, I’ll take it. I wasn’t mad about it at all about the Terminator. I did see something actually just recently about Terminator two, and that Robert Patrick worked really hard on running without breathing through his mouth, because he figured if he was a Terminator, that he wouldn’t be, like trying to catch his breath. And he got really fast.
Joe: And there’s a scene where Edward Furlong rides away from him on his bike, and he was able to just catch him, like instantly because he was so fast and they had to put a stunt man on the bike because Edward Furlong couldn’t go fast enough to get away from Robert Patrick running. And if you watch him run in the movie, he never has his mouth open.
Joe: Pretty sounds like, oh, that’s a that’s a clever detail to to put in there. So I always appreciate those little, little moments where you go, oh, I would never have thought of that. I wouldn’t have cared either way. But then it makes total sense when you see it in action.
Greg: Right. Well, this movie starts out in Mexico. Mackenzie Davis shows up, we think she might be a Terminator, and she grabs some people’s clothes. She, like some cops, try to hurt her. So she, like, I don’t know, she kills the cops, but she hurts the cops. And then there’s like, a guy and a girl, they’re making out or something, and they said, thank you.
Greg: You just saved her life or whatever. And she says, don’t thank me yet. And then the next scene, she has the dude’s clothes on and she’s driving away. Yeah. I thought that was interesting that she grabbed the dude’s clothes, not the girls.
Joe: Plus, I like that too. Also, they fit her perfectly, right?
Greg: So. So we got another Quantum of Solace going on. Tom Ford must have been a volunteer. Yeah, exactly. But she does put her foot next to his foot to see if the shoes fit. Kind of a match. Like the Die Hard.
Joe: Yeah, well, die hard reference there. So.
Greg: So this guy did not have feet smaller than her sister, which is what happened to John McClane. And I heard one. Yeah. So she goes to find and Talya raise and protect her, and she gets there, and then Gabriel Luna shows up and starts kind of killing Danny’s family. Yeah. Her brother, who has a singing career and wants to be the next Bruno Mars, her dad.
Greg: He kind of assumes the role of her dad or like, the shape of her dad. And they they’re all speaking in Spanish and there’s no subtitles because this movie is classy. That’s what that means when they’re speaking a different language and they’re not telling us what it is, we have to actually just watch their performances.
Joe: Right?
Greg: I love I really love it. You want to distinguish yourself as a movie. You know, that’s a really long period of this movie where they’re speaking in Spanish and no subtitles given. Yeah. Pretty great. Oh oh, does he want us to deploy that same contract? Daniel Adams saw the enemy with a, I said, you. Saying something goes, I am a Danny.
Greg: Danny.
Joe: See them? Yeah. I do appreciate that. When they just kind of assume you’ll get the context. You don’t need to.
Greg: Yeah, you don’t need.
Joe: To know what’s happening. Just trust us. Yeah. You know, you’re in good hands.
Greg: It’s awesome. And then, the Terminator follows Danny to work, and that’s where Mackenzie Davis finds her and starts to protect her and begins a journey of two hours, explaining to her that there’s nothing you can do. You just have to run away from the Terminator. I don’t know how many times she says something like, Danny, you go or it kills you.
Greg: It’s that simple. She says that to her like six times. Crazy Danny kills you. It’s that simple.
Joe: Yeah, and Danny just kind of goes with it without really questioning. Like, maybe you put up a little bit more of a fight. I know that people are dying and her dad is there, but then as the Terminator and all that, but she kind of just falls in line instantaneously with it.
Greg: So a little bit of kick back.
Joe: I would have like one more scene. Like maybe she would run away from Grace just to, like, try to how do I how can I trust you? She’s like the the trust is instantaneous.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: With Grace. Grace could be. You know, she’s from the future. We don’t know. You don’t know about Grace yet. So.
Greg: Right. All right. So you wanted one more? I felt like they did a pretty good job of of Danny not quite understanding what’s going on. And Grace repeatedly telling her, you cannot do that. Yeah. Just run, just run. You go or it kills you. It’s that stupid. It will not stop until you’re dead. But there was an interesting creative tension in the making of this movie between James Cameron and Tim Miller, in that Tim Miller wanted to make it kind of a darker, more grounded tone.
Greg: And, in his director’s commentary, he kind of said, I, I sneakily made one more scene where Danny was talking about how she wanted to honor her brother and things like that, and James Cameron just was like, you gotta get through these scenes. We need less exposition here, less people talking about emotions. We are really just here for spectacle and emotional resonance.
Greg: That’s what he was pushing for. So apparently they they fought all the time while they were making this movie. And even in like, interviews, Tim Miller said it wasn’t the kind of creative relationship I’d hoped for in making this movie. And Cameron as well described their partnership as, like, contentious but ultimately productive. Like they were really fighting all the way through filming and then all the way through editing what this movie was going to be.
Greg: And you have to think, yeah, it’s got to be rap to collaborate with James Cameron on a Terminator movie. When three, four and five were not great. Yeah.
Joe: And I have made no secret about my kind of distaste of James Cameron sometimes the writer.
Greg: James.
Joe: Cameron, the director and the action director is almost in a class all his own. Yeah. And these are his characters. Yeah. So I kind of I see both sides of the argument.
Greg: Totally.
Joe: Sometimes creative tensions can lead to greater things. I can also sometimes think a movie. I don’t feel like it sunk this movie, but I, I get it, I understand it, but I think it would be hard to to fight James Cameron on The Terminator and just his howling tears because I think, yeah, mean. He wrote and directed both the first two.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: Of the the if I remember.
Greg: That’s right. And Terminator was his first real movie after Piranha two The Spawning.
Joe: It’s quite the jump there to make. So yeah, I mean I get I understand it and that’s, that’s very interesting. I mean I can see it going darker, but I might be on James Cameron’s side, which is a weird thing for me to say if like, this is about spectacle, this is give me a kick ass action movie.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: With time travel, I did appreciate within this one. And then the first two and I think the second one especially, they really spent a lot of time talking about like how they discovered the technology. And, you know, there was a piece missing from the Terminator and the first one and, you know, that’s how they were able to they spent zero time explaining time travel or how it all works.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: It’s just like there’s time travel. And to me that’s I appreciate like I don’t the more you explain it, the worse it goes.
Greg: To me.
Joe: Where it’s just like, okay, we live in a world where there’s time travel.
Greg: Okay? Right.
Joe: That’s all I need to know. I don’t need anything else. Don’t tell me how we got here. Just take the story from here. I mean, the challenge with it for me, with any, any universe where there is time travel is nothing is set in stone. The next movie comes out and any resolution is, you know, easily kind of written over with.
Joe: Oh, we found this thing, and now we’re going back in time again and again and again. And so, yeah, that can feel a little annoying to me. Like in the Marvel movies, there’s no way that any of those characters that died aren’t somehow resurrected with a simple explanation, because they have introduced time travel into that universe. And so we’ll just go back to a time when they were there and they’re back into the future.
Joe: And, Wolf, two jokes about catching them up on today’s topics. Then we’re good to go.
Greg: So yeah.
Joe: But yeah, I appreciate I appreciated that there was very little in the way of exposition on time travel. I just it is here we are.
Greg: Yeah, there was a lot of action and a little bit of explaining in this movie, but they definitely had good writers around. I mean, David S Goyer was in the mix here, I think, for both the story and the screenplay. And he wrote The Dark Knight. So yeah, there was a very big chunk, like 40 minutes in where there’s just a lot of big exposition scenes.
Greg: Yeah, they’re explaining some things, but there’s also a lot of character in the way that they do it. So it didn’t quite bog down the film because, you know, at that point you’re kind of like, what are we doing here? What’s happening? You know, what are the rules of this one? And they’re kind of setting your mind at ease that don’t worry, you’re in good hands.
Greg: But also, we’d probably talk about the future that we came from. That’s different than Skynet. That’s different from the other things. And so it’s a little bit of a that’s how they kind of got out of the John Connor verse. You know, they, Skynet never happened. Linda Hamilton saved us from the Judgment Day that happened. But then of course, I a different I was made on Legion.
Greg: I love it when they say like, well, there was a new one called Legion. And then another character in the movie says, oh, Legion got it, like reset again. Yeah. So that we’ll remember it. Yeah.
Joe: Oh, Mitchell. Yes! Mitchell. Nice to see you, Mitchell.
Greg: Totally. Totally. Yeah.
Joe: Or quantum or Specter or whatever we want to.
Greg: Whatever it is. Yeah, totally. Yeah.
Joe: Yeah, it’s a low. I feel like it borders on kind of dragging the movie down, but it doesn’t go too far. Before we get to that, I do have to say, here’s my biggest thing and I know we will get there. Getting to like the the set piece action scene in the detention center when they are crossing the border.
Joe: But we have a universe in which there is unspeakably brilliant technology to send people back in time, and yet they’re still crossing the border the way we do now, like walking across like the her uncle is, good coyote who’s going to help them cross the border. You couldn’t have figured out a different way to get them captured.
Joe: To me, the biggest thing that pulled me out of the movie was they have this amazing technology. You have this augmented person who’s got incredible powers and a Terminator that’s got all the. And nobody’s going to walk across the border. They could have flown a helicopter across the border. They could have driven, they could have done so many things.
Joe: And that that to me was like, come on, come on. You have all of this technology at your fingertips, and this is how you’re choosing to get us across the border into, I said.
Greg: What could she do? I mean, she’s an augmented person. She can run faster. She can jump far down than her knees will take it. She has increased strength. But like when she time travels, like you can’t even bring clothes back with you.
Joe: I’m saying she could hotwire a car, she could fly a plane. And yet they’re walking across the border getting captured.
Greg: Okay. Come on, come on, come on, come on.
Joe: That’s where I am with that. Gotcha. It felt writerly of like, we got to have a little bit of travel. We got to have a little bit of character development. Oh, and we have this cool scene that we want to do in the detention center, which is an awesome action scene. So I’m not disappointed in that scene at all.
Joe: I’m just.
Greg: Like.
Joe: We could have gotten there a million different ways where she’s flying some helicopter that she stole. Yeah, we’ll go crying. Go. And her driving up and buying a plane, you know, we’ll just cross crossover with all of Quantum of Solace and we’ll go from there.
Greg: But I don’t think they do that. I think they go through the, the tunnels through the mountain from Fast and Furious for perfect.
Joe: Done and done.
Greg: You know, there was Gal Gadot and, yeah, it’s one simple phone call to Braga, and you’re good to go.
Joe: Yeah. Anyway, that was the one.
Greg: My my my one.
Joe: That in the opening scene with the aging. But that was like, come on, come on.
Greg: Well let’s see, should we talk about the tweak on feminism or should we talk about Gabriel Luna?
Joe: Next let’s talk about Gabriel Luna a little bit, because he was the only other person like Mackenzie Davis. And, was it Natalia Reyes? I had never they looked vaguely familiar to me, and I looked at their IMDb. They’ve been in stuff I’ve seen, but never as like stars. Yeah, I have seen Gabriel Luna and stuff, but this is to me, it was under build, you know, because I feel like Linda Hamilton and Arnold Schwarzenegger being in this are almost like supporting actors in it.
Joe: And I appreciated that. And like the fact that we were just we’re not going to cast a big star where you feel like, you know, you know, they’re safe because of the big star. Yeah. Which to me, I always like and they kind of kept me questioning and they, they all deliver great performances. And I like Gabriel Luna as the, the new Terminator, the Rev nine.
Joe: This whatever his model is.
Greg: The Rev nine. Yeah.
Joe: And he can kind of mimic lots of things and.
Greg:
Joe: Menacing. Just a bad guy. You know, you just don’t like him, you know, want him. But he’s also indestructible. So like all Terminators.
Greg: Yeah. I think that it’s interesting that he can change to look exactly like a person, because his metal outside can look like clothes as well. He can just touch some clothes and kind of change his appearance. It’s a little confusing that he also can, like, have the same relationships with people, that the person that he’s killed and taken their identity, he seems to know all the people that they know.
Greg: He knows their accents.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: You know, he seems to be able to like, read their mind or something like that. And it was very confusing.
Joe: And needed one line somewhere in that I’m like.
Greg: Yeah, because I feel.
Joe: Like there’s another movie that are show where it’s like they have a certain amount of time where they know, like they have your memories for the last 20 minutes or something like that, you know? Yeah, like the mimic ability is, you know, once you get past a certain time threshold. So they needed some mind like that in there.
Greg: Yeah. So there’s the thing where it’s like, well, how does he know this person’s accent? How does he know who they’re friends with? And they’re inside jokes seemingly with like coworkers or whatever. I also, if he’s such a killing machine, how come he doesn’t just like kill everyone and walk through walls. He seems to she seems to like code switch to like different societal norms to not to not stand out too much until he just starts killing everybody.
Greg: It’s very bizarre. You know, like I it is a little bit scarier, like, oh, well, that person could be around us at any moment. Also, I mean, his one trademark move is he turns his hands into like, swords. That seems to be like his favorite thing, you know? Yeah. And whenever he is, like, blown apart or whatever, the metal kind of seems to be able to, like, find itself and like, reform with him.
Greg: So how come he can’t just, like, throw bullets off of himself and, and kill people that way, you know, because that metal is going to come back to him, right. I didn’t quite get it. I didn’t quite understand. But at the same time you don’t want this guy to be like Superman where he’s just an unkillable machine.
Joe: But you raise a really good point. And he could have had maybe a kind of like bullet we’ve never seen before, where it’s kind of like a boomerang, where it shoots through someone and goes through them and then comes back. Yeah, yeah. Missed opportunity. It’s true. I feel like sometimes with those technologies and even in and movie it, I’m thinking of Green Lantern and stuff like that where they can like control everything around them and then what they choose to use their powers and what they create are like what a five year old would create if they had those powers.
Joe: Like, well, what of my arm for this swords? Instead of my thinking? What is the most menacing way we could demonstrate this sort of technology in the world?
Greg: Yeah, which.
Joe: Would be much different. Or, you know, instead of just swords, it could be like 30 swords that come out and just, like, rip people to shreds. And that would be terrifying. And so I agree with you there. They could have pushed the envelope a little bit more with his powers, if you will.
Greg: I mean, I’m glad that they didn’t, but I don’t understand why they didn’t. Yeah. So the movie is grace and Danny are running away from the Wrath of Nine. They get to a bridge, and then just out of nowhere, Linda Hamilton shows up and she just like, shoots the Rev nine and the Rev nine has now split into two where like, this is another thing that’s a big for this movie where like the skeleton can be fighting and the the exoskeleton is the outside.
Joe: The exoskeleton is like armor. So like a beetle has an exoskeleton. Okay, okay. Endoskeleton is fighting. And then the black goo that can transform into whatever is also fighting. Yeah.
Greg: Okay. And so it’s kind of like this Terminator can turn into two. And Linda Hamilton has never seen this before as far as we know. But she’s just like whatever I’ve got like my rocket launcher thing. Yeah, it’s just the greatest. And like, she totally just takes them out when she hits the Terminator skeleton thingy. They don’t really show this, but I think it goes back like 40ft.
Greg: It’s like a cartoon. In the commentary, they said there was a lot of debate about how far they show this thing going back, because it just seemed it seemed like a like a wily coyote kind of scenario, but like, it falls off the bridge and she looks at them and for her first line to them is, I’ll be back.
Greg: She’s like throwing bombs off the bridge and oh my gosh, just so awesome. I’m just like, well, it’s kind of like when, Luke Skywalker finally showed back up in the Star Wars movies where there’s just this exhale of like, we weren’t worried about the Senate anymore from the from the prequels. We’re just worried about Luke Skywalker again.
Greg: There’s just like, oh, that feels good. That’s really nice. Yeah. Anyways, what did you think of when The Terminator skeleton walks into the back of Gabriel Luna and they kind of rejoin to be endo and exoskeleton again? What did you think of kind of those moments where they’re kind of showing those two things come together?
Joe: I liked it, I was like a little bit of a new twist on things, and it’s referential because, you know, if you remember some of the, the other ones, and even in like Terminator two, maybe even the second one, like the skeleton of the Terminator is a big thing that you to see. And it’s what is fighting in the whatever the present tense is before they go back in time.
Joe: Right. And so I felt like it was a nod to that. You know, it was fine. There was, it gave, you know, I didn’t love it, but I didn’t hate it either. And that scene is just so perfect. Like, I literally feel like everyone watching, listening to this should stop and just put in Linda Hamilton dark Fate entrance.
Joe: Yeah. And watch that moment, because it is perfect in every way. I could not like. It’s like perfect. No notes.
Greg: Like.
Joe: So as you like to say no, no, it is perfect. It is the perfect entrance of that character. And it just makes the movie without Linda Hamilton and without that moment. This movie is.
Greg: Just another Terminator movie. Yeah, totally.
Joe: Exactly.
Greg: Yeah. Except when they are escaping from Danny’s workplace at the beginning, they’re driving in as like a truck. I think they’re driving a truck. They’re driving in a truck, and at some point the door gets torn off the truck, which makes it officially a great bad movie. Yeah. The driver side door. I was the moment. Yeah. It’s like, oh, we’re off to a good start here.
Greg: But anyways, Linda Hamilton saves them and then they steal Linda Hamilton’s car without her and leave. And they go to a pharmacy. And this is one of your favorite things that happens in movies. It’s not quite the break into the veterinarian office to like patch yourself up, but they do go to a pharmacy to get what Grace needs because she’s just exerted herself too much.
Greg: What did you think of the scene when they go to the pharmacy and they just, like, hold up the pharmacy?
Joe: Well, wait, I totally have that as a trope in this. And then I tried to listen to what she says, and she just has a whole bunch of jargon of like, I need benzodiazepines and this. And then she just lists off a litany of things that have no business being mixed together. And we go, I’ll save it for the end.
Joe: But I reference that in our outro because it’s pretty ridiculous. And it’s it’s also referential to another movie with Jason Statham. Minutes. So that’s all I’ll give you. That’s the foreshadowing you have for the outro on this of what I thought of that. And then.
Greg: She has.
Joe: 3 or 4 different syringes of the mixture that keep her going.
Greg:
Joe: That are used throughout the movie for a fact. As her powers wax and wane and she needs to whatever. There’s some line in the ones she’s driving in the first scene of like these are were designed for short bursts of energy. And after that.
Greg: Yeah, I’ll tell you what they need a she could use any anticonvulsant that this guy has on him. Yeah, maybe some sodium polystyrene sulfate, some insulin and then benzodiazepine.
Joe: Okay.
Greg: And when you put that into ChatGPT and say, what on earth would you do with this stuff? It says these medications are often used in combination to address a critical medical condition called hyperkalemia, a life threatening elevation of potassium levels in the blood. So there you go. All right. Yeah. ChatGPT didn’t exist when this movie came out. And that’s why I’m assuming it’s taken five years for the conversation to really be had about this movie.
Joe: Yeah, exactly.
Greg: We do have something awesome happened though, a few times with Grace, but especially when she basically says, here’s my prescription and it’s like a gun. Yeah, but she just kind of, like, limply holds on the counter. It’s like pointed down. Then she just walks back and grabs what she needs and we see through her eyes. She’s using like the Terminator eyesight kind of stuff.
Greg: That happens quite a bit in this film with her, but also with the Rev nine. Just glorious. I feel like that’s when you know, it’s a real, you know, Terminator movie.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: And then Linda Hamilton just shows up in a different car. Yeah. And is live it a little peek behind the curtain of the movie. They had like a scene of how she got that car and then they cut it out because who cares? Yeah.
Joe: I am totally great with that. Edit that is perfect.
Greg: There are so many deleted scenes for this movie that it is just like, oh my gosh, this movie was almost horrible. Are they almost totally like, did not make a great movie because, you know, they were trying to figure out this part or that part of the the script or the story. Oh my gosh, man. I think what they whittled this movie down to is just amazing.
Greg: This is such a great movie.
Joe: Yeah, it shows the importance of editing. Yeah. Throughout.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: It tells a tight story and gets you to the end where you kind of know where you’re going. But the biggest surprise for me, I think, was the I wasn’t expecting I don’t know why I, I purposefully didn’t look up anything about this movie before I watched it. I wanted to kind of go in real cold. Yeah. And so when Arnold Schwarzenegger shows up in this movie.
Greg: Yeah, an hour in. Yeah.
Joe: I was pleasantly surprised. His story of how he stays in this timeline. Yeah. So basically he kills John Connor and then just he’s fulfilled his mission and he just kind of lives on and starts a family.
Greg: It’s so it’s such.
Joe: A bizarre beast. And then.
Greg: His.
Joe: Wife or partner and their son just fine with this. It’s just like, wow, I told them this was coming and they just drive off and that’s all we hear from them. Yeah, so that was a little odd, but it was another one of those moments where it’s like it didn’t take me out of it. It didn’t take me out of the movie.
Joe: It just was like, oh, that’s a little odd. And he’s aged, you know, he’s a Terminator who has lived a full life, and here he is. Yeah, but it did feel like a weird choice for the movie of what happened. But I guess what happens to a Terminator when they fulfill their mission? What are they supposed to do, like jump back into the future?
Joe: The future has been changed. And so. Right. They’re just living their best life in the woods, giving everyone Coronas with lime in them perfectly cut every single time.
Greg: Exactly like when this would.
Joe: One like that.
Greg: Yeah, one would one in the Fast and Furious movie.
Joe: Although I didn’t notice everyone did hold their beer appropriately and not like Vin Diesel holds it like he’s running a relay race and holding a baton, you know?
Greg: So it’s a completely different IPA. We hold our beers differently in this one. Yeah. So how do we get to Arnold Schwarzenegger? Well, Linda Hamilton shows up on that bridge because she occasionally gets texts with coordinates and a time machine goes there. And when she gets there, some sort of terminator will show up and she’ll take it out.
Greg: Then the texts are always signed for John, and she is explaining this to Grace and Danny in the car, and Grace looks at, I think, where are the numbers coming from in the cell phone, I loved it. She takes apart the phone and starts like scanning it or something with her enhanced. Given how many times this grace, by the way, in this movie say I am human, I’m just enhanced.
Greg: That happens quite a bit. But anyways.
Joe: That’s not a drinking game. Officially it is now.
Greg: But I loved it when she’s like going through and like almost like in the terminal of the phone, the phone turns into a terminal screen and Sarah Connor says, what are you doing? It’s just this feature. Sharp. Yeah, I love that. That was a direct line from Tim Miller. That’s what he just kept talking about stuff in the movie.
Greg: I guess that’s what he called it. That’s why they put him in the movie. So then she says, oh, wait a minute, this is Laredo, Texas. And she right before she came, Grace came back from 2042. I just realized only 2042 back to 2019, she said. I have coordinates tattooed on me. They were they were given to me a couple days ago before I came back.
Greg: And they’re to Laredo, Texas as well. I think I’m supposed to go find the person that’s been sending you these texts. And when they get to that cabin in the woods in Laredo, Texas, first of all, they see a van that says Carl’s Drapes, I think is what it’s called. They’re like Carl, Carl’s your guy, and Carl is Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Greg: So Arnold Schwarzenegger has come back from a future that no longer happens because Judgment Day didn’t happen. And so he stopped getting transmissions from the future because Skynet never happened. And so he just finds Alicia. Alicia has a baby, and he helps her out. I don’t know, I thought it was a very sweet kind of storyline. When he shows up, this movie kicks into a gear that I was not expecting.
Greg: They’re allowing it to be super funny, also a little bit heartfelt. You know, he makes it clear that he’s not human, but he’s, you know, he’s tried to approximate some of those characteristics as much as he can, although he says humans are better.
Joe: You know, a different movie could have been Arnold Schwarzenegger kills John Connor, and then they take the story. His story from there.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: You could have told that story of, like, this kind of robot discovering love and what it is to be a human. Like, that’s a movie we’ve seen a lot before. But yeah, and that’s kind of a that’s alluded to in this. That’s where we kind of hit a little bit of a lull in the movie, and we’re kind of getting some of the exposition of how we got here and what’s happened.
Joe: But I was all in. I was like, oh, oh is fortunate because of this. And Linda Hamilton hates him because. Right, he has killed her son. Yeah. And I like totally get that. Like it’s and she never lets him forget that you owe me.
Greg: Right.
Joe: For what you have done to me. And I appreciated that. And there was never a moment in there where, you know, like in Fast and Furious movies are like. Or the the enemy becomes the now does one thing and then they become part of the, the team and part of the family. I never got the sense in this that there would be a moment at the end where Linda Hamilton wasn’t going to try to kill him.
Greg: Yeah, well, and she shoots him in his cabin. Yeah. Like shoots him three times and he looks he looks at the others and says, this.
Clip: Will be very hard to explain to Alicia.
Greg: He’s incredible.
Joe: Yeah, it was awesome. What I do want. And this is more just for my own, because I think it would be hilarious to throw this into a movie of how to explain his Austrian accent is that we have a scene like right before he’s going back in time, and somehow you know how you can change Siri to have different accents on your iPhone or.
Greg: You know, yeah.
Joe: So they’re just like messing around with the different accents that they can give him. And then it gets stuck on Austria and yeah. And so there’s a scene the like, oh no, we’ve got to get him into the flux capacitor before we run out of time. And it’s just like stuck on Austrian. And that’s how they explain why.
Joe: Yeah, this character and nobody else as an Austrian accent.
Greg: Right. So what’s there it is.
Joe: My when.
Greg: Asked what’s your current Siri.
Joe: It’s just the normal one. Whatever.
Greg: That is a chance, right? All the time I love it.
Joe: Yeah. If I were more in tune with how to remember how to do it, it’s one of those things where I do it once and I never remember how to do it again. And then when I think about it, it’s, I don’t want to spend five minutes searching on my iPhone on how to do it. Right?
Greg: Right.
Joe: But I should because it’s awesome that they have that though. That’s my for any of the future ones. Please, just for the fans, give us that moment where it gets stuck on the Austrian accent.
Greg: So one of my favorite things about this movie, but also one of the weakest plot points in that we’ve seen a lot of Terminators in the past and you know, they have like the obligatory scene on the beach where Terminators are walking up out of the water and they’re just like Terminators everywhere. Yet this one that killed John and she tries to shoot as it’s going after John and she, like, grazes his cheek.
Greg: And then when we meet him up later in life, 20 something years later, he has like a big scar right where she shot him. So we know it’s the same one.
Joe: I missed that.
Greg: I mean, like, how is it that she knows that this is the one out of the gazillion Terminators out there that we’ve seen in these movies? This is the one that did kill John. It’s the weakest plot connection. I mean, I like that it’s there, but it is like, that’s a stretch. Come on. Yeah. And how does she know that it’s the same one right away.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: A little weird. And then by the end of Terminator two, their allies are even halfway through Terminator two. So. And that.
Greg: Same. Right.
Joe: Ronald. Yeah, I agree it’s a little done up for effect. Yeah, I’m here for it. But it’s also like, all right, I get you.
Greg: There are moments in this movie where they were talking about things and I kind of was having trouble tracking with them. There’s a point where Linda Hamilton says Skynet had sent several Terminators to hunt John one finally caught up with us and carried out orders from a future that never happened. And then they cut to Danny and the look on her face was like, what?
Greg: Yeah. And in my mind I was like, hold on, can we pause for just a second? I don’t really understand what she just said. And then there are other times where I feel like I’m catching on to like, time travel logic. They’re driving down the road and Danny’s talking to Grace, and Danny asked Grace? Yeah, but who sent it?
Greg: And Grace is not who in my mind. I was like, oh, she’s going to say when. And then Grace says, the real answer is what I was like, yeah, not when. It’s obviously what? Now I feel stupid. Yeah, I but for a moment.
Joe: They needed a character that could explain things. You know, I think Terminator two has one of the characters that talks about early Skynet. Even in Edge of Tomorrow, there’s a character where they, you know, meet for the first time. It’s like, how many fingers am I holding behind my back? And then they kind of explain on the desk that shows, you know, everything that’s happened.
Greg: Yeah, they.
Joe: Needed a character like that to help put in context some of the ridiculous theories around time travel and all of that.
Greg: Well, we need the best Basil exposition there is on planet Earth, and that is Michael Caine from all of the, Christopher Nolan movies. He just give it all to him and he explains it. Yeah.
Joe: So we needed that character. And usually that’s a character in these kind of movies that dies somewhere around the middle of the second act.
Greg: Sure, but.
Joe: They hand off something to, like, keep this safe.
Greg: And then they say, forgive yourself right before they pass away. Exactly. Yeah.
Joe: They’re really hard on yourself.
Greg: When we’re traveling from Mexico, we get on a train and then we go across the border, and then we get to Arnold Schwarzenegger. Kind of that traveling in Mexico, where they go to Danny’s uncle’s house, and we’re traveling on the train with all the people, and we’re doing things by moonlight. Pretty beautiful. And I also just really liked lo fi zero technology traveling around Mexico.
Greg: I thought that was a very cool move for this movie. While they’re having those exposition conversations like they’re on top of a train, although the moonlight scenes kind of weren’t amazing looking, I kind of feel like what they were going for was Sicario. You remember the movie Sicario? Yeah, the kind of traveling by moonlight across the desert. And I want to say they were in Mexico when that happened, but that movie had Roger Deakins as a DP, and this movie did not have Roger Roger Deakins as a DP, although it’s I don’t think it’s an embarrassment.
Greg: I think they really did kind of match the shots, you know, with all the special effects or whatever, pretty well. But this movie was one Deakins away from being a great, great movie in my mind. Okay. So they have a couple in those expositional scenes. There’s a lot of like Linda Hamilton assuming that Danny is going to give birth to the next John Connor.
Greg: Yeah. And they really don’t reveal that. Danny. It’s not that Danny gives birth to John Connor. Danny is John Connor. It’s a really interesting flip on the story where in 1984 Linda Hamilton was like the mother Mary you know I think she even says let somebody else be the mother Mary for once in this movie. And they kind of flip it from that to now actually just the woman is going to change the world, not through her son.
Greg: I really love that. I thought that was an incredible move in Terminator six.
Joe: I agree, that was probably my favorite moment in the movie, when they had that moment when Grace is telling Danny, because Grace knows Danny in the future, right? And he’s going back to save her. And, you know, and there’s a little bit of a flashback of grace when she’s little and being saved by Danny and that. Yeah, she is.
Joe: It’s not that she is the vessel for the savior, but that she is the Savior. Yeah, and I love that. I have the same feeling of like, oh, of course, you know, I should have been writing on the wall. They have three amazing women leads in this.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: Driving this movie forward. Right. All the men are kind of pushed aside characters. Yeah. It’s awesome.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: And we have that as the kind of the central theme as it kind of comes do. And yeah. So it was awesome. It was my it was my favorite kind of choice that they made in this movie. Little bit shades of mad Max Fury Road and those sorts of things where I was like, you know, these are the feminist tones within the movie, but we can still make a kickass movie.
Joe: And right, it’s not doesn’t beat you over the head with I don’t feel like either movie of those kind of are taking that, like their movies are like message movies. I don’t know if that makes sense, but like the point of it is to deliver this message and this is like a subtle piece within it, but doesn’t take over the movie for me, which I always appreciate because sometimes when you’re trying to make drive a point home, you just, yeah, hit it over and over and over again.
Joe: You’re like halfway into it. Like, I get it. I get what you’re trying to say. No character is going to behave like this, right? Or you can just make a movie where these are the themes within it, but we’re going to let the audience be smart. I guess there’s a way to look at it.
Greg: I bet Fury Road was a real inspiration for this movie. I bet when they saw that that was one of the best action movies that’s ever been made, and it had those themes, they were like, hold up, this is an opportunity for us to really do something special with the Terminator series. I mean, that was a conversation they had.
Greg: They go to Danny’s uncle’s house, and Danny is trying to explain that they’re these robots after them or a robot after them. She says something like, this is going to sound crazy. I really like that. She said that, you know, like, yeah, just hold on to your britches for a second. I’m going to tell you something that’s crazy, dad.
Greg: But he doesn’t really believe her. And then enhanced Grace pulls out like a butterfly knife and, like, cuts a fly in half midair. Do you think this movie was rated R? Because a fly murder must be.
Joe: I forgot about that scene. That’s so ridiculous.
Greg: It’s like, so awesome. Okay, okay, okay.
Joe: That’s that’s all the good guy. Really good girl.
Greg: Yeah, exactly, exactly. I loved that when they were going through the desert, like, about to get to the border between Mexico and America. Gray says there’s a drone up there. And Sarah Connor says, I don’t hear anything. He says, yeah, well, you’re not an augmented super soldier from the future, are you? And then do you remember in Black Widow when they’re in a quiet scene and then the loudest lights in history turn on outside their window?
Greg: I feel like whatever was on that super hovercraft or whatever in Black Widow was also used as the headlights of the trucks on the other side of the border. When they get to America. They turned on their lights all at the same time. And they were the loudest lights in Hollywood history.
Greg: Star it was.
Greg: Unbelievable. I love that when a drone comes down from the sky to try and crash into them all, the sound goes away. There isn’t a ringing in the ears. But I appreciated that when they are in that jail on the American side, before they go to Arnold Schwarzenegger’s house, the bad guy shows up and he doesn’t like fly in.
Greg: He doesn’t. He just drives in dressed as somebody else and he says, hey, I just got TDY here to pick up a new detainee, and they let him through into the jail. How often do you get TDY it as a person?
Joe: All the time. If I knew what that meant, I think I appreciated that they didn’t explain it. Yeah. They were just like, sure, that’s just what it is. Okay. Yeah. Go on. And what does that supposed to stand for?
Greg: It’s temporary duty.
Joe: Okay.
Greg: And so the correct answer we were looking for from you was every time I go to the bathroom, okay?
Joe: Damn it. Next time.
Greg: I.
Joe: Have let everyone down.
Greg: Yeah. When they get out of the jail, Grace and Danny and Sarah get to a helicopter. And it made me think of this is. There’s just a chance that a movie isn’t a real movie until there’s a chopper.
Joe: I’m probably.
Greg: Yeah, I’m willing to make that call right here.
Joe: Now, I think so. I mean, I’m trying to think of a movie we’ve watched that doesn’t have a helicopter of some sort in it somewhere, right? I think they all do. And if they don’t, we always think it would they be better to have had a helicopter in hand? Yeah. Regardless of what it is.
Greg: So is one helicopter short of a of a great movie? Yeah, exactly. They fly that helicopter into Arnold Schwarzenegger’s house, which is where the coordinates are. And Sarah says they should land the click short. I kind of feel like that’s the best amount of clicks. Short?
Joe: Yeah. Just a quick 15 minute walk away.
Greg: What’s it click?
Joe: I think it’s a kilometer.
Greg: Okay, okay. That’s my favorite click. Yeah. One is my favorite click. I think it might be the best click of all time. To be honest. I know that we are all just regular people living our lives, but the way I live my life is by occasionally listening to hilarious autobiographies. And I, a year ago listen to Arnold Schwarzenegger’s autobiography.
Joe: Obviously.
Greg: That’s obviously how I celebrated, the holiday season last year. And surprisingly, in his autobiography, he basically says the most important thing to him is exactly what he tells Sarah in the cabin when they get to him. And it’s all about purpose. So this is definitely Arnold Schwarzenegger. Like getting his influence into the scripts, right? I don’t know, I liked it.
Greg: He he talks about how he and Alicia didn’t have a physical relationship because obviously he’s a robot. She didn’t ask too many questions, but he just said, you know, caring for this family gave me purpose because without purpose, we are nothing. That’s his whole book. Is that and then he talks about how he was sending the text to Sarah Connor to give her purpose.
Greg: I don’t know, I thought it was. I thought it was pretty sweet. I was like, I know this is just Arnold infusing his spiel into the movie, but you know what? Yeah, I’m going to give it to him. I’m cool with it.
Joe: Can we just back up for a second and just say that Alicia didn’t ask any questions?
Greg: Not many. Like. Right.
Joe: Shout out to Alicia, Alicia, for not asking any probing questions as to how this who this person is or what they’re doing or any of that. So it’s awesome. Totally. And just being completely understanding when his true purpose was to then help Sarah Connor defeat Rev nine.
Greg: And send.
Joe: Them off into the world.
Greg: And your home is no longer safe, you need to leave your home. You know, there actually was one deleted scene that speaks to what you were talking about where Alicia, she speaks with Sarah Connor basically says, who do you think you are? How do you just come into our lives like this and take him away? And and it was not something that was in the script.
Greg: And Tim Miller in the, in the commentary says, this is where I went rogue and kind of added this even though I wasn’t supposed to, because I thought it was an interesting thing. So when they’re describing how he was able to know when people would be coming from the future, and he was able to text those coordinates in that time to Sarah Connor, he says when chrono displacement occurs, there’s a shockwave through time measurable before the events.
Greg: Do you think that’s true?
Joe: I mean, who am I to question Arnold Schwarzenegger’s purpose? So probably absolutely.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: That’s one of those lines that you have to practice as an actor.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: That deliver with any sense of sincerity.
Greg: It’s it’s.
Joe: So ridiculous.
Greg: So good for him. Oh good. I don’t know how he does it. I swear Tiger just knows how to hold a frame.
Joe: He does.
Greg: He can barely walk in this movie. He was, like, limping. But when he’s just standing there talking, it’s like, this guy is just so fascinating to look at and hear. Even when he’s saying things like Colonel Displacement.
Joe: I feel like he is underrated as an actor because of the movies he does.
Greg: Yeah, yeah.
Joe: But I think he is legitimately funny and he’s better than you think, especially as he is, you know, kind of aged. And even his new show, foobar on Netflix. Yeah, pretty good is essentially what would happen if if the truly is character aged. Yeah, yeah. And it’s legitimately funny and ridiculous. And I am looking forward to season two.
Greg: Is there going to be a season two? I mean, that’s that thought.
Joe: I heard that there was going to be a season two.
Greg: But I’m.
Joe: All in. I’m all in on Arnold. I just think I think he’s weirdly become a national treasure. He’s like Snoop Dog. He’s just like, hit this like iconic status of right. Of course he did that.
Greg: Yeah. You were asking, how on earth has he made it work with Alicia? And that’s actually what they ask him as well while they’re drinking their Coronas. They don’t know.
Clip: No, she hasn’t noticed that you weigh 400 pounds, that you never sleep.
Clip: Our relationship is not physical. She appreciated that they could change diapers efficiently and without any complaints. I’m reliable. I’m a very good listener and I’m extremely funny.
Greg: So awesome.
Joe: That’s his Tinder bio right there. There you.
Greg: Go.
Joe: Dot dot dot. And I’m extremely funny.
Greg: Yeah, yeah, I already love this movie. Before he showed up. And it was just like, we are just firing on all cylinders now. We have a funny, nostalgic Lego sequel that is entirely working for me, even though it’s a retread in a lot of ways, it’s just new enough. It’s one step new enough, and it’s exactly what we were talking about with Die Hard two, where it’s just really nice to be with John McClane and Holly McClane, even Dick Thornburgh.
Greg: Is that his name? It’s just nice to be with them again. So here’s my question to you, Joe Broad picture about Terminator dark Fate. We haven’t had a chance to talk about a legacy sequel yet where they revisit a movie many, many, many years later. Now, there had been other Terminator movies, but this is really a sequel to a 1992 movie in 2019.
Greg: So this is really a legacy sequel. What’s your take on Lego sequels?
Joe: If done right, they’re great. Yeah, and I think that this falls into that category have done really well. Is it great? I mean, it depends on what you are thinking or what you’re expecting. I wasn’t expecting the high watermark of Terminator two when I went into this, but what I got was better than I expected. So my expectations were a little bit more low and I yeah, again, since I hadn’t watched it, I purposely didn’t watch any trailers.
Joe: I didn’t read anything about it. I just wanted to watch it and just kind of experience it. Yeah, yeah. And so I like it. And I think to your point around what is a good sequel, sometimes a sequel is, is we just want to be with those characters. Again, we like those characters. You know, when we talk about John McClane, like he’s a likable character, especially coming out of the first one, we want to be with him.
Joe: He’s he’s funny, he’s irreverent. He’s going to save the day.
Greg: Right?
Joe: And we want to hang out with him more. And I think the same thing can be said of of this. And they twisted enough and they kind of pushed the story and the technology forward enough that it feels like it’s, you know, you’re getting something extra with it. You know, every, you know, in a sequel, you want the higher body counts and bigger explosions and all of that.
Joe: Right? And we get that. Yeah. But I also feel like it gets back to the heart of what made especially Terminator two interesting to me. You have Edward Furlong’s character in Terminator two being really the heart of that movie. Yeah. You know, Arnold Schwarzenegger’s aging Terminator trying to protect him from this new, incredibly sophisticated Terminator. And then you have Lyndon Hamilton’s character trying to protect his son, all of that.
Joe: But to me, the heart of it is Edward Furlong. And trying to save him and he kind of is. And so I think that that carried through. So I’m for him. If they if they’re done well, I mean there have been plenty that have been done poorly, you know, hardly ever do sequels live up to the first one.
Joe: And I feel like a franchise like Terminator, you’re expecting explosions and cool technologies and that sort of thing. And I think we get all of that. Yeah, yeah. What are your thoughts about kind of the legacy sequels?
Greg: We’re in a weird spot right now where we’ve seen some pretty good ones. I think this is a really good legacy. Well, I’m in the minority. I really like the Ghostbusters, like a sequel called afterlife, the first two acts of that movie, I just really, really liked. I loved, Spielberg. Amblin take on it is a bit more sentimental.
Greg: It wasn’t in New York. I really, really liked it. And then the third act became such a rehash that I kind of had to, like, accept it. I had to decide I liked it rather than just I liked it. Other legacy sequels that have just entirely failed. Gosh, there are a lot of them, you know, Die Hard four was about 12 years later after Die Hard three.
Greg: That was kind of a legacy. Well, that one kind of I like it as a movie, but I don’t quite understand why it happened. Yeah.
Joe: I feel like they do it more with TV shows where they reboot them, and for the most part with TV shows, I’m out on those just because they have. They are telling the story for so long. Yeah. And I it feels like a money grab. Yeah. And maybe that’s the case with some of them I don’t this feels different.
Joe: This one feels like a different like it’s, it’s felt like let’s reboot this franchise. Yeah. And what do we need to do. What do we get back to you know.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: Whereas maybe Lethal Weapon four. So that’s a great one because they have Jet Li and.
Greg: But it wasn’t super I mean like Top Gun to Top Gun Maverick. Almost 40 years 35 years I think that’s a legacy sequel that succeeded. But it’s also just the same movie.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: Pretty much maybe Star Wars coming back for episode seven and The Force Awakens. It’s basically episode four again. Yeah, the Death Star became Starkiller Base. I just got something for the Empire. So The New Republic, something like that. The Matrix Resurrections, that’s a legacy for sure. What do you think of that movie?
Joe: I haven’t seen it. Oh, it’s only seen the first two matrix. I just to me, the first one of those is a near perfect movie. And then I watched the second one and there were parts that I loved and I just couldn’t where they went with it. Yeah. So I yeah, I agree, I was like, you already stuck the landing.
Joe: Why do you have three more movies after this?
Greg: Right, right. My first question is typically why are we doing that? But I don’t ask that until I’m actually in the movie or after the movie where I think, wait a minute, why did that happen? Yeah. You know, when you see the trailer, it’s kind of like, oh, okay, we’re Jurassic World. Yeah, we should probably have more dinosaur movies.
Greg: Let’s do that. Let’s see how it is. You know, like Creed is maybe one of the best Lego sequels. Yeah. Where it’s sort of the it’s sort of just redoing the rocky world, but it’s made by some of the greatest people in film today. You know, they’re doing a happy Gilmore, too. Is that like a sequel that you were looking for in life?
Joe: Yeah. No, not at all. Yeah. I mean, when it feels like Happy Gilmore two feels like a money grab of while people wanted it and, well, give the people what they want, which is fine, but is Happy Gilmore a great movie? It’s funny in parts. I’m not a big Adam Sandler fan. Yeah, I have to put my cards on the table.
Joe: I don’t find him funny. Honestly. Okay, so this is going to maybe be divisive, but.
Greg: I love that movie. I love Happy Gilmore.
Joe: It’s probably his.
Greg: Best.
Joe: Yeah, maybe 51st Dates might be his. I mean, I like some of his dramatic stuff. Yeah, but when it’s just, like, let’s just get all of my friends and a movie together and.
Greg: Be.
Joe: Dumb, I just.
Greg: I’m out.
Joe: I can’t do it. And so I understand I’m in the minority on on Adam Sandler and Happy Gilmore and all of that.
Greg: But yeah, well, I’m here’s the thing. I question why they happen, and I’m totally going to see him. Like, I’m fully going to see the next Happy Gilmore. Just because that’s fun. It’s why I watch. I’ll let you.
Joe: Yeah, I’ll let you fall on that grenade. Yeah, I watch this movie every single day.
Greg: Over. Sure.
Joe: Anything or that of Sandler, but I mean, it’s just me.
Greg: This is the legacy conundrum. Why are they making it? Also, I’m going to go see it and then after I see it, I’ll question, why did they make that. Yeah. And it was kind of fun to see everybody again. Good to get the gang back together. And maybe there is something interesting about revisiting a character after a couple decades and continuing a story.
Greg: Maybe that’s even more compelling than making a sequel 2 to 5 years later. Is that possible?
Joe: I think when done right, it can be. I look at Top Gun Maverick, I mean, it’s the same movie. Yes, exactly. I mean, there’s yeah, you toss out the fact that goose dies in the first one. Spoilers for Top Gun. Wow. The first one. Wow. Anthony Edwards, our last name dies.
Greg: Yeah, not.
Joe: But I do feel like in that one they did some things with the characters that I appreciated, even though like the action scenes and how it ends and all of that is 100% just like formulaic bish bash. Sure. But I like that Tom Cruise’s character really hadn’t changed in 35 years. And then you saw everyone else who it’s kind of been in the sequel or was in the first one had had change and he hadn’t.
Joe: And and it was like, oh, that kind of tracks with things. And so I, I appreciate that. Yeah. Did it need to be nominated for Best Picture? Not a chance in the world that that movie deserved to be nominated for Best Picture. Other than nostalgia of of when the first one came out and I feel like it was done well, like it’s for sure a movie.
Joe: I would be happy if we said the next movie we’re going to do is Top Gun Maverick. On this podcast, I’d be like, I am all in on that 100%. And then you have a sequels that are done poorly. I like at like The Hitman’s Wife’s Bodyguard just being god awful. The Hitman’s Bodyguard is one of my favorite action movies of the last.
Greg: Yeah, ten.
Joe: Years.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: It has this amazing character, and it has kind of the surprise of Salma Hayek. Just as this ridiculous character. And it works perfectly in two scenes where she’s, you know, on set for a day or two.
Greg: From the director and she’s Venables three. Yeah. Is it Patrick Hughes? I think it’s Patrick Hughes.
Joe: I think so, and as like, well, what if we just took this character and, and and like put it in the entire movie? I was like, what? It doesn’t work because what worked perfectly about it was it was such a surprise. Yeah. You weren’t expecting it. And it’s just this, this much of the movie, it’s just a handful of scenes and then you expand it and it’s just awful, you know?
Joe: So that one, I’m looking forward to the legacy sequel of The Hitman’s Wife’s Grandson.
Greg: Great grandson. Yeah, whatever. Okay, well, that is my next question. And this was a rejected initial question for this episode. What, like a sequel hasn’t happened yet that you want to happen? And I think it has to be at least 20 to 25 years later.
Joe: I feel like we talked about it when we did speed.
Greg: But a speed.
Joe: Sequel with Keanu Reeves and.
Greg: 300.
Joe: Bullock speed three.
Greg: No is.
Joe: Three. Yeah, three, obviously.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: And it’s the grandson of Dennis Hopper. And it’s you know, whoever that is as the bad guy because.
Greg: He was a success. He was a successful family man. Yeah, exactly.
Greg: Flashbacks to the sweeter side of Dennis Hopper in that movie. And. Yeah.
Joe: But, like, I could totally see that. As if you said Keanu Reeves.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: Sandra Bullock, speed three.
Greg: John Dumont. Come on man, man Jackson the Govia going to be the production designer again.
Joe: Maybe we can get like Chad Dolinsky or
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: Someone like that to be the director. And then. Then I’m.
Greg: In. Okay. Threed is the perfect answer to that question. You just nailed it. Nice work.
Joe: Do you have an answer to that one?
Greg: I mean, I would have said Action Jackson, but we lost Carl Weathers. That was a sequel that I just always thought should have happened. Wow. I don’t know how to answer the questions. I only know how to ask them. This is what I’m learning right now.
Joe: Okay, okay.
Greg: I’m blinded by three. That was such a good answer. You know what I’m going to say? The legacy. All that we need is the sequel to cliffhanger that I think is on the way. And it was supposed to be a reboot, but then Sly Stallone got involved, and I think it’s we’re back to Gabe’s story, and I think it’s a proper sequel.
Greg: So I think we’re getting the legacy I’ve always dreamed of.
Joe: Okay, so wait.
Greg: And that is not as good as three new When you win and the legacy fell off. So wait, I’ll take it. Moving along with this movie, I just want to ask you one more question, okay? And that is the going to get like an MP, which is some sort of like, like.
Joe: A magnetic pulse.
Greg: Yeah. And that’s how they’re going to get rid of the Rev nine. They’re waiting for some military person to arrive. And in an act of treason, give it to them. And while they’re waiting, we have a scene where Arnold Schwarzenegger, the scene starts like mid story, and Arnold Schwarzenegger is talking to Danny, just talking about drapes.
Clip: There’s much more to it than just picking the right color. It’s the texture, the weight of the material. One wrong choice. Yeah, okay. They can destroy the look of the entire room. Fine. It was just one customer that came to me. You wanted to have solid colored drapes in a little girl’s room. I said, don’t do it. You need butterflies, polka dots, balloons.
Greg: What was this like for you? Watching all sorts. They talk about.
Joe: Drapes. Honestly, it was pretty awesome.
Greg: I loved it.
Joe: I was all.
Greg: In. Yeah. One of the best moments of the movie. Yeah.
Joe: It was so jarring when it happened. But also it worked perfectly for me.
Greg: Yeah, I.
Joe: Didn’t question it at all. I was like, oh yeah, of course the Terminator has this is what he’s doing now. And he’s figured out how, you know, Carl’s drapes and that’s okay. And then of course, he’s named Carl. And why question it. So I was I was all in on that moment and it was it was perfect. It was a perfect little movie moment of yeah, there was no reason they could have easily cut that moment from the movie and saved 30s or whatever, but they left it in and it was it was probably one of the best moments.
Greg: In the movie. The T-800 Arnold Schwarzenegger in a Terminator movie talking about drapes. Seriously, there is nothing better like that. Yeah, it was just like, okay, well, they made a movie for me here. This movie is everything I’m looking for in a movie, and it has a legitimate story that it sticks to a very simple but great story, and it finishes it and the credits roll an hour and 58 minutes in.
Greg: Perfect. Yeah, it’s the 18 minutes that Quantum of Solace needed. Yeah, exactly. Well, Joe, it occurs to me that there’s probably a chance that people have not seen this movie and might not know at all what we’re talking about. So let’s pretend in 2019, you’ve gone back in time. You showed up, you’re walking naked through a Blockbuster Video.
Joe: As I always did, and.
Greg: Trying to figure out what to rent. You’re picking up the box, you’re seeing who’s in it, you’re seeing who directed it. Most of all, you want to know what this movie’s about? It’s time for the back of the box.
Joe: It’s the back of the box in the present day landscape of I created machines hunting humans into extinction. The last, best hope is to send back in time and augmented human to protect the leader of the resistance. Hot on her heels is the Rev nine model, which is a near perfect killing machine. Well, the ragtag cast of heroes be able to survive before time runs out.
Joe: Or will that dark fate be the last gasp of humanity as it is snuffed from the world for good?
Greg: Wow. I feel like the editor who you’re writing for on that would say Near-perfect Killing Machine doesn’t make people read the movie. Joe. Okay.
Greg: Which is a 1,000% perfect killing machine that never fails. Yeah. All right. Well, I think I read it. I think I’m in despite near perfect.
Joe: I mean, if it was a perfect killing machine, the movie would be over in three minutes. Yeah, it just comes out and kills everyone and then credits roll.
Greg: So in this movie, they never say Dark Fate. They do say F8. And I was like, that probably was what the script said. This probably best movie is probably called Terminator F8. Well, that is the marketing back in the box. Let’s get honest Joe. This guy Tucker watches this movie. What is Joe? This guy Tucker’s real back of the box for Terminator Dark Fate.
Greg: All right.
Joe: Linda Hamilton’s return to the Terminator franchise comes in the most iconic and exciting way possible. In what could have been a paint by numbers sequel, Dark Fate reboots the franchise, adding a worthy film to sit alongside T1 and T2. I can’t say it is better than either of those, but it can be mentioned in the same breath. There are fun action sequences, and the capabilities of the new Rev nine are fun.
Joe: It also should be said that any film that uses the term kill box will be awesome. It’s just facts.
Greg: It’s just facts. That is amazing. Okay, so should we get to some box office numbers and some reviews of this movie?
Joe: Let’s do it.
Greg: All right, well, this movie was supposed to be the beginning of a new trilogy. That didn’t happen. And here is why. This movie’s budget was $185 million. And for the most part, that’s money well spent. I think, you know, unfortunately, in America, in the fall of 2019, this movie grossed $62 million ish. Not a lot of interest. That could be in a reaction to the previous three people had been burned before.
Greg: I obviously saw this movie in the theater, obviously because my wife was in grad school and I was like, if you’re going to be studying again, I’m gonna go see this thing. Internationally, though, Schwarzenegger is a big star. It made 198, almost 299. So internationally, this movie made $261 million. So while it made more than its budget after filming and marketing, this movie had to make about $450 million to break even.
Greg: And it did not. So, Joe, what do you think the tomato rating is for Terminator Dark Fate?
Joe: I mean, it feels like a 70.
Greg: It does feel like a 70, I agree.
Joe: But I think audience score. I would put this probably like 55. Okay, I got critics score. Those are my guesses. I will be honest. I’ve not looked at anything.
Greg: Yeah yeah okay. Well the critics score on this movie is 70% absolutely perfect.
Joe: That on for us okay.
Greg: Audience score 82%. Wow.
Joe: People like this. They like this movie.
Greg: The people that have seen this movie really liked it. And so that’s why you are alone and not loving this movie. Well, apparently. I mean, honestly, we always say a movie feels like a 70. You think this is probably like a 45?
Joe: I feel like 70 is a little high. Yeah, I feel like audience score where I put this movie on my. Yeah, it’s like a 55 or 60. It’s not.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: Just kind of knowing what the box office was. I have thought it would be a little lower.
Greg: Yeah, but.
Joe: Audience score and critic score can be weird sometimes. Yeah.
Greg: Well, let’s talk about what the critics said. Soren Anderson, writing for the Seattle Times, our hometown paper, says Linda Hamilton steps back into the role of Sarah for the first time since Judgment Day, and instantly becomes the heart and soul of this movie. That’s basically what you said. Yeah, yeah. Variety says the new movie earns its lavishly staged action, and it’s emotions, too, because no matter how violently broke it’s end of Days vision is, its storytelling remains tethered to the earth.
Joe: I would yeah, I grew up.
Greg: I feel like this is really hard for sensational action, but also for down to earth emotions. Yeah. Helen O’Hara from Empire magazine, who was on the Empire podcast and she’s so funny. It’s a great podcast, says basically how I feel about this movie. Easily the third best Terminator film, which is more of a compliment than it sounds. Yeah, agreed.
Greg: That’s exactly how I feel about this movie. It’s great to have a Hamilton back in this role, but she’s ably matched by Reyez and Davis. Totally agree. Justin Chang from the Los Angeles Times Justin Chang I heard a great interview on a speed podcast. Actually, there’s a speed podcast called 50mph that was really good. And Justin Chang was on that podcast to talk about how he feels about that.
Greg: Maybe he says sometimes it doesn’t take much to revitalize a dead intellectual property. Sometimes all it takes is a movie in which Oscar la Vista, baby, is it the extent of the character Spanish?
Greg: Nice. And I take.
Joe: It, I mean.
Greg: Gabriel Luna. A lot of this movie takes place in Mexico. I feel like there is a real aspect of feminism and representation in this movie that I really appreciated. Vanity fair says lying underneath the emotional context is a perfectly serviceable action movie, which I feel like.
Joe: That as well.
Greg: If we hadn’t taken the title Great Bad Movies, perfectly serviceable action movies could have been another name for the show.
Joe: Matter. Drinking game. If you’re playing along with us of what the title of this podcast could have been, there it is than serviceable there. Action movie.
Greg: Yeah. Lastly, I want to read Newsday as a passable piece of entertainment that three teams old talent and adds a new wrinkle or two. The movie generally succeeds, and I also think that passable piece of entertainment could have been a name for our show. Yeah, take a drink.
Joe: Take a drink.
Greg: All right, Joe, is it time for us to get to drinking games?
Joe: Yes. Let’s do it. I have our stop drinking games.
Greg: Every time these things happen. Take a drink.
Joe: How? You divide it up. You could give someone you. Just. Any time a stock drinking game happens, you drink. Or if person gets one. Yeah, it’s up to you. We’re not going to stand in your way. No. Make it your own silent helicopter or low flying helicopter. There is a helicopter in there so you can drink.
Greg: Yeah, it’s.
Joe: Not necessarily a surprise or a silent helicopter, but we’re not going to stand in your way. Yeah, we do have a push in and enhance. We have lots of, especially in the beginning when they’re getting into technology. So they’re able to kind of see where they’re traveling and those sorts of things. We have a slow motion look in the middle of chaos, and one of the action scenes where they’re kind of looking at each other.
Greg:
Joe: Linda Hamilton is looking at our Schwarzenegger and there’s a couple other moments, but that was the one that I was referencing now. Explosion with silent suffering ringing in the ears. Missed opportunity I feel.
Greg: Like well hold on. Can I do a substitute for that? Sure. There are a lot of moments in this movie where the sound kind of fades out and we hear kind of reverbs, moments of what’s happening. So no ringing in the ears. But that does happen a few times with the sound of the movie kind of fades out.
Greg: So I’d say take a drink that.
Joe: Absolutely. And they do that with the title when it locks into place. So the score is kind of rising, rising, and then it kind of disappears when Dark Fade comes on or the title.
Greg: So we get that judgment and judgment.
Joe: Exactly.
Greg: Okay.
Joe: I kind of gave a flashback because it flashed at flashes back to kind of an earlier timeline. So you can drink on that one for sure.
Greg: Opening credits. And then also when John Connors killed.
Joe: Sure. We have in my mind, and I’m kind of referencing the de-aging, which I’ve already talked about.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: So the bad CGI, there are a couple moments in it that you can’t really notice the CGI. For the most part, I didn’t it didn’t bother me as much as the de-aging did, but that was more of a personal feeling.
Greg: This movie came out in 2019, and there was a scene that felt like 2008 CGI, and that was when they were in the plane and the plane was blowing up. It was the most beautiful CGI that would have ever happened in 2008. Like it looked better. Yeah. But at the same time, they also jumped out in in a very A-Team esque 2009.
Greg: Yeah, like Jeep with a parachute. I don’t know if that scene counts, but.
Joe: I think it counts. And I have to say that I did love that scene, and I feel like that’s almost becoming a trope in and of itself, of a plane exploding and then diving out. I mean, we have the Gray Man, we have this movie, we have Skyfall, and I feel like there’s another one that does that as well.
Joe: So that almost turned into a trope in and of itself. Yeah. Or drinking game.
Greg: Sure. Yeah, I.
Joe: Have this one highlighted, but I honestly think this might be the first movie where we don’t have great bad shots because the bad guy has swords for hand instead of guns. He doesn’t. I don’t necessarily recall a lot of shooting at the protagonists the way we have them, so this might be one of the first one where we don’t have a great bad shot.
Greg: Wow. Do you think in the script he wasn’t called the Rev nine, he was called Jimmy Swords for hands.
Greg: So hope so.
Joe: Are the streets inextricably wet? Yes, yes they are. When grace.
Greg: Comes.
Joe: From the future and the ice bubble.
Greg:
Joe: The streets are wet. I had to go look at that before we started recording this, because I thought they were. And I look that up and it does.
Greg: So last week Mexico classic Mexico.
Joe: We do not have a give us the room or an Interpol. But those are our stock drinking game. So Greg’s fine art. What is your first drinking game that you have?
Greg: Any time we see through the terminator’s eyes and their scanning. Thanks.
Joe: Oh, I love that one. That’s awesome.
Greg: How about you?
Joe: My first one is Sarah Connor’s hero entrance. Everyone finishes their drink. Whatever it is that’s in front of you. The only. I only get one of those, but it is worth it. Just slam it back.
Greg: Yep. So this is something I meant to mentioned earlier, Danny, in the first half of this movie, she yells, hey, a lot. Hey Chris! She yells it in a way that John McClane does it a lot. Bruce Willis does. This is movies where when something’s about to happen, he goes, hey, Danny does it to really good effect. So, any time Danielle’s hey.
Joe: I had and I took it out because it’s at far too much for any person, but I had anytime I say Danny and this movie because I just want you to know her name is Danny. That’s so much in this. But I took it out because it was too much. Let’s see what I have. Anytime a naked person drops from the sky, take a drink.
Greg: That’s a good one. That’s a good one. That should just be a drinking game across all movies. But especially Terminator movies.
Joe: Absolutely.
Greg: Let’s see. I have anytime Gabriel Luna makes his hands sweaty things.
Joe: Oh, nice. I also have anytime. You see, like the black goo that is.
Greg: The like really good.
Joe: Not endoskeleton of the Terminator or the.
Greg: New Terminator, like on the ground. And it’s like moving and rejoining itself. Yeah, yeah. Anytime they say Rev nine. Oh, take a drink.
Joe: I have every time they say kill box.
Greg: What? That’s exactly my next one. Awesome. That is incredible. Okay, I’m gonna skip that one then. And say any time they say MP.
Joe: Oh nice. That’s awesome. I have every time there’s a Corona with lime perfectly cut in your drink. I can drink.
Greg: Any time Arnold Schwarzenegger is shot. Oh, that happens a couple times in this movie.
Joe: We’ll get to that in the tropes of kind of the, our first bulletproof vest check. Sure. They kind of do that with, with the Terminators. Yeah, I have anytime there is blatant product placement, especially with the cars, because they. Oh, I feel like Audi, maybe Chevrolet, but like, I feel like there are 4 or 5 scenes where our car stops like two inches from the camera and it’s just like, oh, there’s the logo.
Joe: So I could drink.
Greg: Hey, Jack, any time the Rev nine splits into two.
Joe: Oh awesome, I have that one. Do I have shot of the skeleton Terminator separated? Yeah. So that’s awesome.
Greg: Any time they speak Spanish without showing us subtitles.
Joe: Oh, that’s a good one.
Greg: Now, I have a caveat for this one because that’s so classy. The classiest person in the room should be given this drink again. Okay.
Joe: Would not be me. Okay? I’m never the classiest person in any room.
Greg: In any room. I think it’s pretty obvious you’re the classiest person. Yes. Okay.
Joe: You’re usually wearing a top hat.
Greg: Obviously. And they have the cigaret extension thing. Yeah, yeah, I have.
Joe: Every time they say robot, take a drink.
Greg: Wow, that’s a good one. Any time Grace says I am human, I’m just enhance.
Joe: Oh, that’s a good one. And that’s for sure. Yeah. And I here are my last ones and they’re the one offs that I had.
Greg: Okay.
Joe: We have a great plane explosion and the kind of leading into the final kind of battle. We have Linda Hamilton thing. I know a guy, so take a drink when she says that.
Greg: Love it.
Joe: We have lots of that medical jargon. We talked about the, like concoction that she gets at the pharmacy. Sure. The future jargon. Anytime you hear that. Yeah. And then anytime you see naked martial arts, because there’s an opening scene in this where there’s some naked martial arts.
Greg: So that’s true. Very William Sadler from. Yes, I heard too. My last one is anytime somebody says I’ll be back, or a variation of I’ll be back. Perfect. Yeah. All right, Joe, it’s time for Joe’s trope lightning round, aka signs. You might be watching a great bad movie.
Joe: Awesome. So, we have a fair amount in this one. We have kind of the keys under the visor. So we have a hot wired car that happens. We have color filters and I’ve been told not to use third world nation, but developing nations. So third world colors in developing nations, we kind of have an out of retirement.
Joe: One last job kind of trope in this with The Terminator.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: And Linda Hamilton, you could kind of make a case for.
Greg: Okay.
Joe: You have a friend, colleague or family member who dies, usually a person of color early in the film. So you have Danny’s family being killed?
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: Which she deals with remarkably well. Some conversations in the middle of chaos and car chases.
Greg:
Joe: A scene where they buy guns, they have a bulletproof vest check on where the Terminator is and then Grace is also shot I think where you know, we are kind of proving that they’re superhuman. But Arnold Schwarzenegger, as you say in your drinking games, is shot a lot in this.
Greg: Yeah. So, yeah.
Joe: You have medical care from kind of a partner or love interest or vet difference, you know, but they go to a pharmacy. Yeah. And then clothes that fit perfectly. So Grace finds X the close of, of a guy, was making out with the girlfriend and then happened to fit her perfectly. So those are our trope lightning round.
Joe: Or you have just watched a great mad movie if 100%.
Greg: Joe, there are questions that the world has not been willing to ask. And I think it’s time, five years later, for us to finally get two important questions.
Joe: Absolutely.
Greg: First question did Terminator Dark Fate hold up in 2019?
Joe: I feel like it didn’t.
Greg: Oh, okay.
Joe: Because of how it did at the box office.
Greg: I think the answer.
Joe: How do you feel about that? You think it does?
Greg: Okay, well, you know, I’m always so stoked. It’s like, oh my gosh, a great bad movie is out there just for me. Yeah. The state of the great bad movie. You need a strong. Yeah. Doesn’t hold up.
Joe: Now. I feel like it holds up better now than it did then. Yeah. I feel like this is one of those movies that. Well, it’s Rotten Tomatoes. Score will go up over time. And I feel like it’ll be as people get a little bit more distance from it, will realize that it’s a worthy successor to Terminator two.
Joe: That’s my guess.
Greg: This movie should get a like a sequel in about 20 years. A great how hard do they sell the good guy in this movie?
Joe: I mean, they she sure does talk about how she is an augmented person. Yeah, a lot, but not as much as we kind of think about, like the classic selling of the good guy or the.
Greg: Good girl.
Joe: Or the protagonist. So, yeah.
Greg: I mean, the good person in this movie is Grace, Emma, Danny. And they do. So I guess the Danny is going to be an incredible leader. Yeah. And she shows she shows that a bit throughout the movie. Linda Hamilton and Arnold Schwarzenegger, all protagonists in this movie.
Joe: Yep.
Greg: But they sell Danny the most as best. And also, yeah. Grace. Yeah. It’s confusing. It’s complicated. Is my answer right?
Joe: Yeah. Just watch it and you’ll see.
Greg: How hard do they sell the bad guy in this movie.
Joe: That that much? Really?
Greg: They don’t really. I feel like about. Yeah. What he’s made of or how it all works.
Joe: Yeah. It’s one of the things I do appreciate about this movie. They don’t really get into the details of, of those. It’s just he’s the bad guy. Run. That’s the movie. Yeah.
Greg: Essentially. Yeah. So why is there romance in this movie? Joe?
Joe: There’s not a second of romance in this movie, except for Arnold Schwarzenegger’s quasi family that he has.
Greg: Yeah, yeah. And it’s sweet. It’s sweet. Yeah. Basically ten out of ten on this guy Tucker romance scale. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nailed it. Joe, are we bad people for loving this movie?
Joe: Oh, well, without a doubt.
Greg: Yeah, I feel like. Does it deserve a sequel?
Joe: Yeah, I would watch the hell out of a sequel.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: Give me Danny, give me grace. Coming back to figuring out a way to resurrect her. Spoiler alert Grace dies in this to save Danny. So. Absolutely. I would watch that. Yeah. Every time.
Greg: Does it deserve a prequel?
Joe: I mean, I feel like we in why we have five five prequels.
Greg: So.
Joe: And only two of them are good. So no. Absolutely not.
Greg: I think this movie would be better if it didn’t have any prequels, to be honest. Yeah, I bet most movies are that way.
Joe: I wonder what this movie would be like if you watched it. Like if this was just the first Terminator movie comes out, it’d be great. It might need a little bit more exposition to like, bring people in because they are. But if they didn’t, I would appreciate it even more. Like, let’s just be confusing and start the story where we want to start it.
Joe: And if you catch up, you catch up. And if you don’t, oh wow, it’s a kick ass action movie.
Greg: I mean, that’s a two word fix. Michael. Yeah, yeah. Okay, Joe, how can this movie be fixed? AKA who should be in the remake?
Joe: Okay, my answer is twofold. One, we bring Jean-Claude Van Damme in with his character from Timecop. You mentioned this earlier.
Greg: Sure, sure.
Joe: So as the crossover of The Terminator in the Timecop averse.
Greg: Right. Because was he from the future as well? I remember the bad guys had bad guy future hair.
Joe: And then we bring in Tom Odin Dick to be the guest host with us. I remember that episode. Yeah. Our friend Tom was.
Greg: Like so okay, how do.
Joe: You fix this movie. Who should be in the remake.
Greg: Wow. Not only did you fix the movie, but you fixed our episode of this movie. Yeah, that is unprecedented. That’s incredible. You know, I, I think this movie could be fixed by getting away from the John Connor family. I think when a Star Wars episode 789 came out, there was just such a fatigue. Like, why does it have to be the Skywalkers?
Greg: Yeah. And James Cameron has talked about this since this movie came out, talking about what do we do with the Terminator franchise now that it’s kind of back in his court and he thinks that five years ago this movie was about AI. You know, in 1984, the movie was about AI. We are definitely living in a world that is quickly being changed by AI.
Greg: So it seems especially relevant now. And he has talked about how this universe for it to continue and needs to think outside of the John Connor family line. And I think that is the biggest thing you could do to fix this. There was just a show that was like an animated Terminator show that people really liked, and I think it was kind of showing the Terminator verse outside of the John Connor line.
Greg: So I think that’s how it could be fixed. Just don’t have John Connor in it, you know? Unfortunately, that makes it not really a legacy. People. I love this movie, so I don’t know if that’s really a fix that I would do to this movie. That’s definitely how I would fix the future of the Terminator world. Who should be in the remake.
Greg: So we’re remaking Terminator Dark Fate. I would like to remake this entire movie with the cast of Sister Act two. Back in the habit. Okay. Yeah, man. And so the T-800, obviously Whoopi Goldberg. Yeah, Grace, Lauryn Hill, you know, Lauren Hill’s in that movie. No, I had no idea. I think high school age lower than me. Right.
Joe: Because she’s like a big singer. They are. Yeah. That’s right.
Greg: And then who cares. All the other players are just filled in by all the other people from that movie. Yeah. And it’s going to be the greatest remake of this movie in history. All right, Joe, we are down to our last two important questions. What album is Terminator Dark Fate?
Joe: Okay, so I spent a lot of time thinking about this, and to me, this is a comeback album. So there’s a comeback movie. Okay, rebooting the franchise.
Greg: What is a legacy sequel album look like?
Joe: I have it as Californication by the Red Hot Chili Peppers.
Greg: Yes. Yeah.
Joe: They had Blood Sugar Magic album and really shot to stardom. And then this kind of put them back. You. I was probably it’s a little bit closer than this is to T2. I get it. But this to me is like their comeback album of rebooting what they did so well. Yeah. And kind of taking the story a little bit further of what their band can be.
Greg: Yeah. So yeah.
Joe: That’s what it is for me.
Greg: That album came out 1999, and then I want to say they did it again in was a 2006 stadium, Arcadia.
Joe: Sounds about right. And seven years later on that.
Greg: Yeah, an interesting band. They keep coming back. I would not have predicted that and would come back like that. That’s a great answer.
Joe: What album is this for you?
Greg: Well, I went to like a return to form, you know, like the spark of greatness that made Terminator one and two good returns and six and was barely there in three, four and five. I wanted an album that was well-received by critics, but also a sign that this thing was coming to an end. That was what I was looking for.
Greg: And that album for me was the penultimate album by R.E.M. called accelerate.
Joe: Okay, I almost went with R.E.M. to really?
Greg: Yeah, this album is them getting back to what they were good at in their first five albums. They had so many albums, but also it was their second to their last album. It had a short shelf life. It was really good. And then we all stopped listening to it, but at least it was like, oh, okay, good. At least R.E.M. fix R.E.M. at least we could sleep better at night knowing that R.E.M., fix R.E.M., and I do feel like Terminator fix Terminator on the sixth track.
Greg: All right, Joe, let’s rate this movie. We have a rating system. Great bad movies. Good bad movies. Okay, bad movies, bad bad movies. And off of bad movies, a scale we barely celebrate. Yeah, but for us to truly celebrate it, we probably need to watch worst movies. And we try to only watch great movies. And on this podcast.
Joe: I know it’s really just is it a good, great, a good or a great bad movie? Yeah, that’s really our scale so far. And I’ve got to I’ve got to not disappoint. This is this is a good, bad movie for me. It’s closer to an okay bad movie. But I’m sorry. Linda Hamilton, The entrance. And this is just it’s perfect.
Joe: And it it put it to a good, bad movie. What about for you?
Greg: I mean, if I said Quantum of Solace was a great bad movie, and this movie is better than Quantum Solace, this is a great bad movie. Yeah, this might have been the greatest bad movie of 2019, to be honest.
Joe: That might be a fair statement.
Greg: You know, we should do for an episode is like great bad movie awards for each year.
Joe: Oh, I love that.
Greg: Yeah, the Emmys, the Great Bad Movie Awards. All right. Joe. Oh, man, we did it.
Joe: Yeah. This was the conversation that needed to happen about Terminator Dark Fate.
Greg: And we would also just like to say, you know, we are thinking about what’s in the best interest for our listeners. And at this point, we should probably say spoilers for Terminator Dark Fate.
Joe: Yeah, spoilers.
Greg: You know, you know, if you haven’t seen the movie, press pause here, go watch the movie and come back and listen to the rest of the episode. Yeah. Oh. Oh my gosh, did you see what time it is? No. What? I am so sorry. I need to go. I think this episode success will only happen if I can get my hands on an EMP.
Greg: And I know this sounds hard to get, but I might know a guy, so I’m gonna go.
Joe: Awesome. That’s good, that’s good. I’ve got to run to the pharmacy and get a whole bunch of different drugs so I can create a cocktail to keep myself going. I know it sounds a lot like the plot from the Jason, say, some classic crank, but it’s totally different, I promise.
Greg: That makes sense for me. And actually, you know what? I really actually have to go as well because I just realized if I become a Rev nine, I could change my clothes by touching them and I would save so much time. So I’m going to go try and become a Rev nine if I can.
Joe: Oh that, that makes sense. Anyway, I’m late for my naked martial arts class is being led by Colonel Stewart from Die Hard two.
Greg: So makes sense. Makes sense. Oh, this is my gosh, do you see that? Everything in my house just froze, and, a naked dude just dropped to the ground. I mean, that’s not anything different. That’s just a normal Wednesday night in my house. But I still got to go.
Joe: Yeah, that’s that makes sense. I mean, Linda Hamilton just made the most epic entrance ever, so I need a moment anyway.
Greg: Yeah. All right, well, hey, I am going to go to, pharmacy with a gun and see how much free Metamucil I can score. Yeah, I.
Joe: Bet a lot. I bet a lot. Anyway, I’ve got to go. I’ve got to cancel. A friend of mine. Apparently, she’s been living with a killer robot from the future, but they just broke up, so I’m bringing her some ice cream.
Greg: Yeah. What can ice cream do? Choose for that situation?
Joe: Gold medal ribbon. Which is the best ice cream that Baskin-Robbins makes? Wow.
Greg: Finally allowed for ice cream cake for me? Yeah.
Greg: Well, that totally works for me. You know what? We don’t get very political on. This show’s kind of an apolitical show. We try to be a show for everybody, but I feel like I just need to speak out and speak my truth and say that guns don’t kill, flies enhanced people with butterfly knives kill flies. And it’s time for this madness to end.
Greg: So I’m going to go out on the street and protest and has people with butterfly knives.
Joe: Yeah, that seems all right. Anyway, there’s a robot at my work now. It’s trying to take my job to be fine. It’s probably not the canary in the proverbial coal mine signaling the downfall of humanity or anything. So.
Greg: No, I think you’re good. I think you’re good. I’m good. Anyway. Yeah.
Joe: I’ve got to make my kill box and anyway.
Greg: All right, well, that works for me. So, Joe, I will see you soon.
Joe: All right. See you soon.