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This week, on Pollen, Hendo, and the Modern Willem Dafoe:
Our editor Sam Cunningham picked this one, and his text said it all: “Gentlemen, I know we’re all professionals here, but I think it is time we take a lesson from Rami Malek.” Perfect. No notes.
2025’s The Amateur is a revenge movie with one great twist: the hero, a CIA cryptographer played by Rami Malek, is terrible at revenge. He can’t shoot anyone, so he has to figure out what he is good at, which leads to a murder plot involving a truly alarming amount of pollen. Greg and Joe love that it takes its time. The quiet scenes (Laurence Fishburne’s firing-range lesson, a tense lock-picking break-in, a late conversation with Jon Bernthal that goes nothing like you expect) are the reason this feels like a 1970s spy thriller that wandered into 2025 with a killer cast.
It’s also ridiculous in exactly the ways we hope for: Hobbs & Shaw travel logic, a glass pool between two skyscrapers, Bourne Identity strings, and Rami Malek’s face and voice, which are a lot. Hot take: he might be the new Willem Dafoe. And it’s the first movie since Mission: Impossible Dead Reckoning to hit every single one of our drinking games.
Also in this episode: the Finnish Navy (no spoilers), why Rachel Brosnahan’s coffee-sipping style is a serious probably that might prompt legislation, the Rotten Tomatoes score that surprised Joe, a plan to flip the cast, and whether Joe’s life has been improved by this movie. (It has. The toe beans on kittens are so much cuter now.) The final verdict: this is a Great Bad Movie, and it’s not even close.
Note: This transcript has been auto-generated, so… You know… It’s not our fault.
Greg: Joe, this is a very special episode of Great Bad Movies where I didn’t make the movie. You didn’t think the movie? Our great editor, Sam Cunningham picked the movie. And so we wanted to open up the show with a special note from Sam.
Joe: This comes direct from Sam in our text thread that we have. And it was the and made me so happy the day I got this. It begins. Gentlemen, I know we’re all professionals here, but I think it is time we take a lesson from Rami Malek. That’s right. Sam’s pick is in the amateur. Perfect. No notes.
Greg: Absolutely. Yeah.
Joe: Yeah. Super excited. It’s Sam’s pick. Yeah. Sam, spec is in.
Greg: Let’s get to the show.
Joe: Let’s do it.
Clip: Everyone know what they do with all this stuff you dig up for them?
Clip: That’s not my job.
Clip: No, but you never wonder.
Clip: Oh, it’s the CIA. I gotta trust that I make the right call. No, nothing. Love him. Bye bye. Charlie, I think you need to see this.
Clip: What is this?
Clip: Your wife has been killed.
Clip: What you do is very important to what we do. Let us handle this. I want mission specific training, cash and a new identity. Have you lost your mind? I want to find and kill the people who murdered my wife. I don’t think you could beat a 90 year old nun in an arm wrestling match. You’re just a nerdy fellow who works on computers.
Clip: What are you doing? Just gonna kill you.
Clip: We got a ping in Rome.
Clip: He’s in London. He just got on a bus in Prague. He practically invented half of our surveillance. Maybe you all misjudge this individual. You recognize her? If you jump really fast, you might survive the glass. Great.
Greg: The year is 2025, and director James Hawes is invited to direct a movie that is being produced and starring Rami Malek. And that movie is called The Amateur. We are talking about Rami Malik, Rachel Brosnahan, Laurence Fishburne, Holt Mccallany. Oh my gosh, the cast of this movie is unbelievable. So Julianne Nicholson, Caitriona Balfe, Jon Bernthal.
Joe: That’s probably everyone that you need to mention.
Greg: All right, so special. Sam’s pick Joe.
Joe: What makes the amateur.
Greg: A great bad movie?
Joe: This is a fun. I had not seen it before, so I should say that I think you had seen it before, but I had not seen this before. Yeah. And so it was fun. It’s a new newish take on a kind of a, the classic theme of. And I’m going to borrow heavily from my real back to the box here, but it kind of answers the question, what if John Wick worked on it?
Joe: It takes that trope of he’s been done wrong and he goes on a revenge tour, but he’s not the world’s greatest assassin. He’s not some special ops guy. He’s not a spy. He’s just, you know, he’s a really smart computer coder. And so you kind of learn with him as he learned how to use his particular set of skills, not unlike Liam Neeson’s particular set of skills to rescue his daughter, to get back at the terrorists who have who killed his wife a in an attack in London.
Joe: And so it was really fun. It’s not an action movie, I don’t know. It’s got some really great action scenes in it, but I don’t know that I would couch it under the action genre heavily. It feels more like kind of like a thriller. And to me, the line in that is like, it’s kind of more of an interesting story and a characters in it, and also felt like there was about maybe a half hour to 45 minutes of this film that they cut that I wanted more of because I feel like Jon Bernthal and Lawrence Fishburne’s characters are underutilized.
Joe: And there there’s pieces that are alluded to throughout the movie of things that happen that you don’t really get the question answered around kind of why that is. You know, he’s supposedly saved Jon Bernthal character’s life at one point. Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, they mentioned that he’s friends with Laurence Fishburne. But what we kind of see in the movie is not necessarily a friendship, but more Laurence Fishburne is training him.
Joe: Right? I don’t really know how long. So I feel like there was a longer story that they probably cut down for time because it is pushing. It’s over two hours and it kind of starts to feel a little long. Okay. But I did want a little bit more of the backstory. I feel like there was pieces missing, and so I have ideas on how to fix that, but I’ll save that to some really important questions later on.
Joe: Okay, great. I’ll turn it over to you. Greg, what did you think of this movie?
Greg: So is there like a small chance that The amateur is one of the best movies this ever been made in history?
Joe: I guess it’s a chance. Okay, great. Okay.
Greg: I freaking loved this movie. I mean, I loved it last year when I watched it, and I especially loved it this week. I watched it twice this week because it is pure cinema royalty in my mind.
Joe: Okay, awesome.
Greg: This is one of the most enjoyable 70s throwback kind of movies you possibly could make in 2025. It is such a well-made movie. Everybody in involved.
Joe: Is just.
Greg: Giving it such a classy A-game.
Joe: Yeah, and the cast is bonkers, ridiculous.
Greg: Just ridiculous. And I think it’s because Rami Malek is friends with people, you know, he’s producing. He and Rachel Brosnahan have been looking for a time to work together, and Jon Bernthal and Rami Malek are old friends, and I think that’s why he’s in the movie. And yeah, you’re right, there is kind of like, oh, I feel like there should be more Laurence Fishburne in this movie because Laurence Fishburne is in this movie, or especially like in 2025, Jon Bernthal in this movie, it seems like we’ll be getting more Jon Bernthal.
Joe: Yeah, but.
Greg: It really adds up to one of the best bad movies I’ve seen in my life. And I just enjoyed it. And I say bad with love. I think it’s ridiculous at times. Not bad. And, it’s ridiculous in all the ways I would hope that a movie that we cover on this podcast would be.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: And so I just think the world of everybody who worked on this, there is something missing, and I don’t know what it is. And I think it could only be remedied by more of these movies. I think there should be at least two more of these movies made.
Joe: Yeah. Agreed. I think, and I will actually kind of steal my again, some of my thunder from this I think should be like a five episode prestige TV show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s kind of how it felt almost, you know in the beats of the movie it takes its time, which I do appreciate. You know you kind of get to see the characters but they’re what ended up happening for me was a few questions that were left unanswered.
Joe: Like he gets a plane from Rachel Brosnahan as a present, sure, but it’s there. They allude to something that had happened on a plane. That is why it’s like it’s like overcoming a fear. But it wasn’t really explained. So there are a few moments like that of like if they had had more time, they could have explored it and really set it up, because it’s kind of set up almost in a five act arc.
Joe: So it’s like, you know, if you just did it in five episodes, you kind of take the beats of the movie that are there and just expand them into a 42 minute episode. Yeah. Then you can utilize, because I did. I felt like anytime Jon Bernthal was in a movie I like, I just think he’s magnetic on the screen.
Joe: I want more of him. Laurence Fishburne is the same. Yeah, this is maybe the first thing I’ve actually seen, Rami Malik, and I’ve seen him in like I know of him. Yeah, yeah. And like I just spent the first half of the movie, I think I texted you that was like the voice that comes out of his body is insane.
Joe: It’s like Prince. It’s just like there’s like, this baritone deep voice that I just wish I had. And so I think I told you that if I had that voice, I’d be like, unstoppable and and not in a good way. So it’s probably best that I have this terrible nasal voice that I do have. But he is an interesting person to look at.
Joe: He plays an interesting character that’s, you know, you don’t see this kind of character. He’s and I appreciate it as someone who’s very introverted as well. Like he’s an introvert that’s sometimes played for weakness in movies like this. But he is not weak at all. He is a strong character, he’s really intelligent and he knows what he wants to do, and he’s kind of always one step ahead, which was fun to see.
Joe: And we get to see someone who’s not good at the action pieces of it kind of figure out what they’re good at and how they’re going to do this, and how to use their his mind in it. And I really that was my favorite part of this because we’ve all seen the you know, he goes into the training and then he comes out and then he can fight really well and you know, shoot great and all of that.
Joe: Yeah. And he’s not able to do that. That was the twist. That was really interesting to me.
Greg: So let’s talk about Rami Malek for a minute. You never saw the show Mr. Robot.
Joe: No, I’ve oh, it’s one of those shows that I missed when it was on. I saw it and I thought it was an interesting premise, and then I purposefully stayed away from any news about it because I. It was one of those shows that seemed like it had lots of twists, that I didn’t want to learn something, and then it would ruin the show if I went back and watched.
Joe: So that’s why I just kind of never watched it, really.
Greg: I really wonder if you would love Mr. Robot. It was a very dark show at times, but Sam Esmail, who made it, is really someone to kind of look into. He made a movie called Leave the World Behind. It had Julia Roberts and Mahershala Ali, Ethan Hawke.
Joe: I feel like I saw that or started it. I can’t remember if we finished it.
Greg: At this great show called homecoming. That he did with Julia Roberts on Amazon Prime, but I really enjoyed. But yeah, Mr. Robot was I think you might really like Mr. Robot. Mr. robot is like, what if Nine Inch Nails was it was a TV show. That might be how I describe in perfect. I’m a little dark, but still kind of amazing.
Greg: But he was, you know, the bad guy in No Time to Die, the James Bond movie.
Joe: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, so I have seen Amelia. That’s right.
Greg: He played Freddie Mercury in that Queen movie. He’s been around for a while. He was in Oppenheimer, which I think is probably why it was picked for this week, because it has the Nolan tie in from Sam.
Joe: That’s right.
Greg: But if anything, I think I don’t know. I’m in the tank for this movie. I think there was a lot of criticism about his performance in this movie, about whether he is, a leading man. And I really liked what he was doing in this movie. I heard an interview with James Horse this week. The Directors Guild puts out a podcast.
Greg: He said that during the filming, Rami Malick was really questioning whether he was doing this right. This character, you know, shouldn’t he be a little bit more this or a little bit more of that? And James has kept saying, you are the amateur. No, you don’t know what you’re doing. You’re not cool. Yeah. You’re a reserved and introverted.
Greg: You know. And so I think the director was kind of helping lead him towards something he was kind of criticized for in his performance. But I, I don’t know, I really liked him in this movie. I really and I really think there’s, there are places for it to go. Yeah. If it continues.
Joe: I wouldn’t want him to change it. I mean, I think part of what makes this movie what it is, and I agree with the director on this, is that’s the whole point of the character he does. He isn’t right. Jon Bernthal yeah. Who walks into the room, you know, and they even have kind of a couple open shots of him, like when he walks into the cafeteria and it’s kind of like a hero shot.
Joe: And then when he when we kind of comes back later in the movie, like, that’s what we expect from, you know, our typical characters in this, you know. And that totally could have been Jon Bernthal. You could I could have totally seen like, former Special Ops. Like they love to throw that in there or, you know, going rogue.
Joe: And then it’s just a cool action movie at the end. And I would have enjoyed that. But that’s not what this movie was. This is a reserved, quiet, the pacing of it, it does. I mean, when he as soon as you mention the 70s as it is, it is paced like, yeah, a 70s film, you know, and I know you love the spy genre.
Joe: So it’s definitely got that, you know, if they had. Yeah. You know, a 1969 Camaro in it, you know, it would have just like, you know, been perfect in terms of like setting the time. Like, I could totally see this could have been set in the, in the 70s the way it’s, you know, it’s done. I mean, I know the technology plays a part in the character’s role and then how he does things, but it’s an interesting almost character study.
Joe: And then you kind of throw in some cool action scenes and, you know, there were a few moments I was like, how is he going to get out of this? He doesn’t know what he’s doing. You know, there’s the first time when he tries to kill someone and it doesn’t go at all according to plan, and that just kind of wrecks him a little bit.
Joe: You know, you don’t see that in movies typically. You know, I’m used to the John Wick where he’s the greatest killer that’s ever been and no shade. I love those movies, but this is not that. Yeah, and it should be celebrated for that.
Greg: This was from a book from, I think, 1981. So that’s essentially the 70s.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: From the writer Robert Littell. So I think that’s probably kind of what they were going for. Yeah. In the book. And it’s updated in ways that just make a lot of sense in 2025. I feel like I’ve seen adaptations, you know, 45 years later that are clunkier than this one. This one kind of did fit in a 2025 world.
Greg: And they picked locations around the world because they wanted to see a spy movie there, but they were different locations on the book, and I thought the that they picked, it mostly takes place in London, but then it also goes to Turkey. Where else does it go? It goes to Istanbul.
Joe: Is that right? I think so, I think Paris as well.
Greg: Paris and.
Joe: Then. Yeah, into Madrid. Yeah.
Greg: So that’s right.
Joe: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s interesting. I mean a little and there and then why we’re watching it some Hobbs and Shaw travel logic thrown in there on how he gets to places. You know he kind of has this person that he’s chatting with. Yeah. That’s you know, kind of that we end up meeting.
Greg: And the line is that.
Joe: Yeah. And to me that was what was interesting is how the character like the access that that character has have like they know how to do all this stuff, but then you meet them and they don’t really know how to do like you. The, the backstory doesn’t quite match. So there was a little bit of because they help him get, you know, give this person $500 and get to this place and you can get on this plane to wherever I am, or, you know, those sorts of things like this, this person know how to do all of this, you know, so they kind of explain it.
Joe: But it was a little bit of a stretch to me on this person having that much like knowledge of the underworld. And then, you know, that person is going to die because as soon as they say, well, I’m just going to settle down. I’m tired of living on the run. You’re just like, there could be no clearer sentence that someone is going to die.
Joe: And any movie that we watch than that, you know, so so again, like, those are the pieces that like, push it right into our lane of like, oh, that’s that’s why we’re that’s why we’re doing this movie.
Greg: Hobbs and Shaw travel logic being when someone can just hop on a plane and be on the other side of the planet in 30 minutes.
Joe: Yes. And there’s no, like, how they get there. Or, you know, this is like, happens and because this person, he’s on the run from the CIA and they’re tracking him pretty much everywhere he goes, but he’s just able to pop in and out to, to some of these locations later in the film. It’s like.
Greg: Oh, so funny. Yeah, he just gets on a plane, no big deal. He has a different passport. It’s no big deal. But you were saying earlier that there’s kind of plotting going on where I don’t know how we got from here to here, and it was kind of like Hobbs and Shaw plot logic going on there. Yeah, yeah, but we should say that line was performed by, well, Ink Line was a dude, a Russian who was killed, pushed out of a window, which is the number one cause of death for Russian spies.
Greg: And his wife takes over for the inclined kind of spy moniker. Right when talking to. And is it CIA that he works for?
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: And so when he gets to where she lives, she kind of takes him in and I really liked their conversations in the movie. We should back up a little bit and say this movie is about a guy who is married to Rachel Brosnahan and Rachel Brosnahan has, like, 1 or 2 scenes with him, and then she flies to London, and then she’s killed.
Greg: And then he finds everybody who was involved in killing her, like overnight because of his incredible spycraft, and then kind of, like, gets the CIA to train him so that he can go, then kill them. And, they ask Laurence Fishburne to train him.
Joe: Yeah, it’s a lot.
Greg: There’s a lot going on there. And then what he learns when he’s being trained is that he doesn’t know how to shoot somebody.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: And he can’t do it. And so he has to find other ways if he’s going to hurt people, ask to find other ways. It’s a little bit the themes are a little bit stretched when it comes to what we’re doing here, but it does all pay off, I think.
Joe: I think so too. And it does. It’s a little MacGyver at different moments. On how he starts 100%.
Greg: To put.
Joe: It together. I have a list an hour. Maybe we can do it now or a bit later of just like questions that popped into my head as I was watching this movie. That’s weird. That just, you know, I have these sometimes happen, but this movie had a lot of just like, different thoughts that popped into my head as I was watching it.
Joe: But there was one scene, especially the first person he tries to kill. Somehow he realizes that they have allergies. Yeah, and then he traps her in this bike room thing. Where? In some spa. And he has pollen. Yeah, yeah. That he puts in there, which I thought was clever, but it’s not like the thought that I had was, where do you get that much pollen?
Joe: Like, is there a, pollen store that he went to because he had, like, a bag that looked like a brick of heroin? Pollen.
Clip: And.
Joe: Well, so.
Greg: He bought all those flowers. He bought all of the flowers at a flower shop.
Joe: Oh, right. Okay.
Greg: And she’s. And the woman marked and said, you must have done something really bad. And he said, not yet.
Joe: Yeah. That’s right. Okay. I, I did not connect those two dots clearly.
Greg: So I mean, they really do kind of like try to walk you through this. He does try to shoot this person because she was involved in.
Joe: The murder.
Greg: Of his wife. And he can’t pull the trigger, but he does break into her place. And of course, he has a calendar with post-it notes on it.
Joe: And yeah.
Greg: That the next day she’s going to be going to this allergy place.
Joe: So yeah, there’s a.
Greg: Little bit of heavy plotting going on.
Joe: But whatever. Yeah, yeah, it was totally fine. And like that’s a really tense scene when he breaks into her apartment and he’s kind of he’s watching like a YouTube video on how to pick a lock. Yeah. And he’s in there and he’s like, I was thinking, what are you going to do? You know, you’re in there and you know, and then they come back and he isn’t able to shoot her.
Joe: So I thought that was a really well done scene of just, you know, he’s had conversations with Laurence Fishburne about being the type of person to be able to pull the trigger. Yeah. Know. Yeah. They have some really interesting conversations. There’s some quiet moment in this film.
Greg: Many.
Joe: But yeah, yeah, you don’t get a lot of just two really great actors on screen together. You know, just like having a moment.
Greg: So he’s getting training from Laurence Fishburne, and then Laurence Fishburne says, I don’t think you’re ready. And then he hands Rami Malek a gun and says, shoot me. And Rami Malek doesn’t shoot him. And it’s like, of course he’s not going to shoot the guy that’s training you.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: So this sort of doesn’t hold up, but it’s still a good scene nonetheless. And let’s listen to it.
Clip: Look at me. Come on, come on, Charlie.
Clip: Paralyzing isn’t it? You pointing a live weapon at someone like that? You have to either be very confident or very stupid, which is its own kind of confidence. Truth is, you don’t have that kind of confidence. And you are not stupid. Not in the slightest. You’re just not a killer, Charlie. People have certain gifts. You can’t do what I do.
Clip: No matter how much I train you. As much as you can’t teach me how to break code, I can’t make you into something that you’re not. I’m sorry.
Greg: Man, listening to that, I have to point out, Rami Malek is, I think, taking some notes from our friend Marky Mark and doing some breathing acting in this movie.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: There is some very audible breathing happening throughout this film.
Joe: I also and one of my questions that I had is, is, is Rami Malek the new Willem Dafoe? Oh, interesting. I could see him in though. Like I could substitute him for Willem Dafoe and everything Willem Dafoe has done and vice versa, I think.
Greg: Wow, that’s a strong take.
Joe: That people come here for. Yeah. Takes on Willem Dafoe.
Greg: Yeah, likable, but also maybe totally crazy.
Joe: Yeah. And he’s a character actor. That sometimes done is the leading man. Yeah. And can play everything from comedy to drama. Like. Yeah, like Willem Dafoe was one of those actors. It just is can be unsettling on screen when he’s a bad guy. And also, like, I think of him in platoon as like one of the like, you just love that character and he’s so good in that.
Joe: So I have the same thoughts about Rami Malek in this. And then they kind of have a distinct look about them.
Greg: Two totally. I mean, Rami Malek, it seems like he’s just making weird faces. Most of them.
Joe: Yes, but it works. It totally works in this movie. It does. I totally I was here for it.
Greg: It’s very it’s not unnerving isn’t the word. It’s very jarring. You know, what he does with his face when he’s emoting and it.
Joe: It really.
Greg: Does feel fresh and new just because you don’t know anybody that actually makes that facial expression.
Joe: Yeah, yeah.
Greg: That’s not a deal breaker.
Joe: Yeah, it was a there were a few moments where I felt a little too put on of like, his angst after, Rachel Brosnahan is killed. Yeah, yeah. But also those are I, I’m assuming those are just kind of hard scenes to like, you know what you have to do? It feels perfunctory, like we just have to have these kind of scenes, these, like, brooding, sad scenes of, yeah, you know, the aftermath of grief and, like, how do you show that on screen?
Joe: It’s really, you know, it’s not not easy. So I, I always have like, little caveats or asterisks by those, like, they have to put this in the movie. Nobody is good at these scenes. And, you know, we just are using that as kind of a plot device to get to the next to the next scenes. The way that I looked at it.
Greg: Man, I felt it though, when when they tell him that she’s that she’s been killed, Julianne Nicholson and Mccallany is interrupting them with his grief while they’re still finishing the sense that she’s been killed. Like he knows what they’re going to say as they’re saying it. Yeah, man, it really gets me. He’s it’s an incredible performance. I think.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: And we’ll have to wait till later in this episode to find out if he won Best actor.
Joe: At the Oscars. Yeah.
Greg: Or if this film.
Joe: Won.
Greg: Best Picture. There’s just no way of knowing that until we get to the important questions later.
Joe: That’s right. Yeah, yeah. Foreshadowing for sure though. Stay tuned.
Greg: Absolutely. Rachel Brosnahan, where are you on? Did you watch The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel?
Joe: I think I’ve watched the first season and a half of that, and she’s lovely. I like her a lot. I think she’s more talented than the role she’s given.
Greg: I think the marvelous well, I watched every episode of The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, like immediately after they were released, and, I thought she just crushed that show. It was incredible. I love that show so much. She played Lois Lane in Superman last summer.
Joe: Oh that’s right.
Greg: And she was amazing. I mean, if you’re going to find somebody that brings the magic of Margot Kidder from that original kind of Superman movie whenever that was way back. And Rachel Brosnahan is perfect casting for that.
Joe: Oh nice.
Greg: Yeah I thought she was great. And she had I mean, there was some really heavy lifting for her and Rami Malek in this movie that I think they get like a B-plus in. I believe that they were great friends. I didn’t believe that they were lifelong married people, and maybe they just hadn’t been married that long. And, you know, so their relationship hadn’t quite grown the way I would have wanted it to.
Greg: But having said that, I really did buy that he loved her and she loved him. When they had like three minutes to show it on screen.
Joe: Yeah, yeah, that’s a tough order.
Greg: That’s a tall order for them.
Joe: Yeah. I agree with your your grade B-plus. Maybe it was a little going down. Yeah. To me I had flashbacks to TV shows, you know at breakfast where the family is there and there’s, like a whole thing of food, and then nobody eats anything like that was kind of the vibe I got from there. Kind of. Let’s show how.
Joe: How cute they are, whatever that’s called. Now. It’s like, you know, I have the meet cute. But then this is like the cute couple, you know, they love each other that show how they how they are together. Yeah. I agree yeah. It was I was a little that was probably the roughest part in the movie for me. I think some of the flashbacks were more impacting for me of their relationship.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: So she shows up many times in the movie. You know, he just feels like she’s still there and it’s not like walk by or hand him something or say something to him, but then not really be in the room. Really affecting for me. Really incredible.
Joe: Yeah. Just hour sees things. He sees her and the where he’s in the club scene. Right, right. You know and the music kind of stops. But then he, you know, kind of like you blinks and it’s not heard like that. I think that was the scene. And then then you have an action scene right on top of that where now Laurence Fishburne is out to get him.
Joe: And so that was just, to me, such a switch that he had to make. Or he’s like kind of on the run lost. And then he’s got to run again because he’s about to be, you know, Laurence Fishburne trying to kill him.
Greg: Yeah. Has that ever happened to you? Were it you’re at a dance club and you look up and Laurence Fishburne is, like blinding it towards you on the dance floor.
Joe: Honestly, I haven’t been to a club in a long time. But yes, I did. Happened to me a few times. That’s why you stopped. Yeah, I think I was with our old roommate, Dan Shriver, who was, one of the best disco dancers ever. And I think it was really? Yeah, I think Laurence Fishburne was out to get him, to reclaim his throne as the greatest disco dancer ever.
Joe: We get that movie made that Laurence Fishburne and Dan Schreiber as rival disco dancers 100%.
Greg: Just tell Laurence Fishburne you got to go to Reykjavik for a minute, and you’ll be good to go.
Joe: That’s right.
Greg: We’re Dan.
Joe: Left. Right.
Greg: James has said that Laurence Fishburne, as a person, when he walks into a room, equal parts of you think he might give you a hug and he might punch you in the face. That’s just the kind of presence that he is when he walks into the room. But both things are an option. It seems.
Joe: Like, looking back at the scenes and in this movie, both of those seem like an option in every scene even. Yeah. Quite frankly.
Greg: Well, yeah, that scene that we just played a minute ago, when he walks in, in that scene, he slaps Rami Malik in the face. Right.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: That was not in the script. Rami Malek did not know that that was going to happen.
Joe: Awesome I love those moments.
Greg: So Laurence Fishburne just walked in and slapped him in the face. And that reaction is real. Like what did you just do a whole mcelhaney and one of the interviews in the movie, he said, you really don’t know what Rami Malek is going to do. Second, the second he is really all over the place. And it’s really fascinating to watch him as an actor, because you really don’t know what he’s going to do next and then be like, Laurence Fishburne was like, I can play that game.
Greg: Yeah, well, slap in the face if you like it.
Joe: Yeah. Awesome. That’s interesting. Yeah, I get the sense I would love to see like some of, like the outtakes that didn’t make it of like the choices that he made that are different and how the scenes kind of played, because I think it’s annoying to me that they he was criticized for not being a leading man. He’s just not what we’re used to seeing.
Joe: And so I think that that’s that’s a shame, because I think he does such a great job of carrying this movie he carries. You know, you do feel his grief throughout the movie. And, you know, it’s got to meet the beats of a classic revenge spy movie. So we got to have those scenes, you know, and he’s got to build on his skills and kind of get to a point where he is utilizing them to his fullest, you know, whatever that the hero becomes the hero trope that he totally nails in this.
Greg: Totally. You’re not the first person to mention John Wick when it comes to this movie. And by the way, it was cold in here until you warmed up the episode with John Wick reference. Thank you for that.
Joe: Yeah. Thank you. You’re welcome.
Greg: But I didn’t get a John Wick feeling about this movie as much as I did a man on fire. Yeah, because in Man on Fire, Denzel Washington killed people in revenge with crazy different ways. Like, we learned what a baby is. And if you don’t know what that is, go back and listen to our Man on Fire episode.
Joe: That’s right.
Greg: So he goes on this killing spree. He can’t shoot people. We learn, but he can, you know, try and stop their breathing with pollen.
Joe: You know, which backfires.
Greg: She gets out and they have a fight scene, and then she gets hit by a van. Great scene. Great scene.
Joe: Right?
Greg: In the whole action scene there was amazing. It takes me an hour to get to that point in the movie. You think, maybe like 50 minutes.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: And then there’s a guy swimming in a pool that’s like a glass pool between two buildings. And he takes the air between the glass panes. So it’s not as structurally sound and.
Joe: Yeah, this.
Greg: Pool between buildings collapses. They do show that nobody is down there on the ground. So he’s not a monster. He’s not killing more people than just the guy in the pool.
Joe: Yeah. And it just so happens that this bad guy is so rich that he pays the staff so that he’s the only person in the pool.
Greg: We’ve all.
Joe: Been there. We find out. Yeah, yeah. So that those are the moments where it’s like our movie and the. Yeah, we see that pool. I’m like, I know, I wonder what we’re going to do now. Yeah, I can’t wait.
Greg: It’s beautifully shot. The director said this was a concern for him because he thinks when there are big set pieces like this, it can kind of take all the attention and resources away from the rest of the movie. And so he was trying to be protective of that. But, I mean, there was a lot of moving pieces to making that a believable thing that happened in the movie.
Greg: Yeah, I thought it was amazing. And the fact that it was a see-through blue pool.
Joe: Yeah, it.
Greg: Was it was a beautiful it’s a beautiful thing. So after that, you know, obviously a bad guy passed away. Rest in peace, bad guy.
Joe:
Greg: And then there’s an arms dealer.
Joe: Who.
Greg: Blows up with some of his arms.
Joe: Yeah, that one was a little confusing on how he set that up. Yeah, but then we have a scene when he gets to, like, the final, final bad guy of. Yeah, know I’m saying you’re not a real killer, but you are just like us. Because just because you give people the illusion that they can get away doesn’t mean that they do.
Joe: And so, yeah, you know, and then we have a, kind of a full circle moment where he is given a gun to point and the bad guy who has killed his wife and he can’t pull the trigger. But, I mean, we should say potentially spoilers for for this movie if you haven’t seen the amateur. Sure. I mean, you’ve had a year and a half, so.
Joe: Yeah, but how it all ends and, you know, we get there. All I’ll say is the finished Navy plays heavily in, in the final, final moments.
Greg: Where you said, I guess you didn’t say spoilers. So the finished Navy reveal is always yes. Yeah. You were warned.
Joe: Yeah. You’re warned about the finished Navy?
Greg: Great scene at the end. So you said this movie is in like five parts? Honestly, it could be in five seasons as far as I’m concerned. Yeah, but this movie hits a stride. Maybe like the last 30 minutes of this movie, it hits like a.
Joe: New somber.
Greg: Kind of tone.
Joe: Where.
Greg: You really just have no idea what’s going to happen next. It’s not a paint by numbers, great, bad movie at all. No, and it really pulls me in.
Joe: I got shades of safe House from this in the same way that it, builds to a final scene. And again, I didn’t quite know where that movie was going. Yeah. Let me get, you know, there I totally agree. Like, it does feel like it’s trying to get to like the middle of the movie when we like when we get to that first action scene.
Joe: Yeah. And then it feels like a rooted. That’s really when it starts to ramp up and get really good. Yeah. You know, Jon Bernthal comes back and we’re not quite sure what his character is. Is he kind of the on whose side is he on? They have a really interesting conversation in the diner or someplace. There’s a really fun fight scene with someone else from the CIA and, Laurence Fishburne.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: It’s really good.
Joe: You know? So I agree, it just kind of gets better and better. We meet that, incline. Yeah. Incline. Usually in these movies, you don’t get this many kind of quiet scenes.
Greg: Totally.
Joe: You might get 1 or 2, but this feels like it’s throughout the movie. It takes those moments. Yeah. They have like a really tender moment of like them just like being people together. That is then interrupted by why it’s a great bad movie. They throw in a line about the chickens around that they’re better than any security device you need.
Joe: So like, you know, as soon as they say that, when are we going to, you know, the bad guys will be there. And sure enough, we hear them and then we’re on the go for basically the rest of the movie after that, from that moment on.
Greg: Yeah. Let’s listen to that scene. For some reason, I gathered the quiet scenes in this movie because they were the ones that really made me think, this movie is doing something different.
Clip: How are you feeling?
Clip: And I don’t know, I didn’t screw up so much this time. I’m not so sure that’s a good thing right?
Clip: Examine feeding the birds.
Clip: When my husband is murdered, I wasn’t prepared for how quiet the world would become. When the sounds that a person makes in your life, the rhythms are, you expect a certain sound at a certain time of day. The door fit for stupid things to do. That annoyed me. Then suddenly there’s nothing.
Clip: For me, every moment since it’s been about trying to like silence.
Clip: You need to ask yourself, doing all this. Is is how you should feel. Yours.
Greg: That’s not your regular great bad movie.
Joe: No, that’s the one. Especially when you play it like the sound of the ocean in the background. Yeah, yeah, I don’t know what about it. Like, it’s supposed to be calming, but it’s also it provides like a, I don’t know, like a depth to it. Yeah. You don’t get those scenes in the movies. We watch it usually.
Joe: And when we do it’s the Rock in Hobbs and Shaw trying to have like a moment with his brother as long lost brother. And it just feels like, can we just get to the action scenes please stop trying to act. And, you know, this is not what we’re here for. Whereas this, to me, did feel like it made perfect sense.
Joe: These conversations and these moments. Yeah. And then the action scenes of May come feel kinetic how you would if you’re an amateur in those situations. Right. And so there isn’t the standard choreography that we’re used to seeing within them, you know, like that first scene to me is like perfectly emblematic of that of like he’s trying to kill her with the pollen.
Joe: It’s not really going anywhere. And to get out of where she is, you have this kind of fight. Then here they run out and it’s like he is safe because she just runs in the street, is hit by a van. Yeah. And it’s so shocking. Yeah, yeah. And you kind of see him and I have the same reaction of like, how is this going to end?
Joe: And it was so well shot of, you know, because I could tell that there was CGI involved in that. Yeah. But it was a great scene. And again, reminded me of, honestly, of, extraction, because there’s a scene where people are hit by, by a truck and a car in the, in the one shot. And it’s like, just as shocking in that.
Joe: But this was like it was an exclamation point in that scene of like, it was lucky he wasn’t. It wasn’t his skill at all. That right where he was, it was just she was scared and running. And I happened to get hit by a van and that was it.
Greg: And then she’s in the middle of the street, dead, and he picks up her phone and runs away in a white coat and nobody goes, hey, that guy just stole her phone.
Joe: Yeah. No, no. The other biggest question I had was, and this is about halfway through and kind of some of the hacking stuff was like, is this black hat?
Greg: It kind of is.
Joe: Yeah. It’s kind of got shades of that, kind of the look and feel. Isn’t that Tony Scott? Right?
Greg: No, that’s Michael man.
Joe: Michael Mann yeah. Okay. Yeah. I just had this moment of just like the way the colors were in it and the way it was kind of shot. I just had this moment where I was like this stuff my might want you can remake a black cat, but this is much better than black at this is like.
Greg: How dare you, how dare.
Joe: You. I may need to eat those words in a second. Now that I think about it, because I love that.
Greg: No, I think you’re right. I think this movie is better than black Cat, but I will. I will stand by Michael Mann. Yeah. Every turn. This movie is this is a great movie. I mean, this is a solid, solid movie. I think we need to point out that it it looks incredible even when it travels to different places.
Greg: It has slightly different hues, but not the kind of color overlay where we make fun of on this show.
Joe: Yeah, yeah, it’s.
Greg: Much classier than that. But Martin Roux was the cinematographer. He shot this movie. He also was the cinematographer of that show, The Agency. Have you watched the agency?
Joe: I feel like I’ve watched bits of that. Who?
Greg: It’s Michael Fassbender, I think it’s on Paramount Plus, maybe.
Joe: Okay.
Greg: And it’s basically like The Agency, but like a classy, multi-season 70s feeling spy thriller.
Joe: Awesome.
Greg: But he shot a movie called The American with George Clooney. Did you ever see that movie? Directed by Anton Corbijn, the photographer?
Joe: I don’t think I have. I saw a movie. I’ve almost seen a few different times.
Greg: It’s a beautiful movie. And after that movie, that guy Martin Roux became George Clooney’s cinematographer. So everything George Clooney has directed since then, this guy has been the cinematographer on. But I bring Up the Agency and Martin Roux because, the director, James Hawes, has directed a bunch of Slow Horses as well. If you watch the show Slow Horses on Apple TV.
Joe: I haven’t I don’t have Apple TV, but I’ve heard it’s amazing.
Greg: It’s such a good spy show. I mean, very similar. So I mean, like, these are the people that Rami Malek brought together for this movie. It’s just exactly who you should call to make a movie. That’s good.
Joe: That’s awesome.
Greg: Totally. Let’s talk about Jon Bernthal for a second. Yes, Jon Bernthal is kind of like the real spy in this movie.
Joe:
Greg: And there was a moment in this movie where I realized this is like serious the other guys. Did you ever see that movie? The other guys.
Joe: I have, yeah.
Greg: Marky Mark and Will Ferrell are like the guys in the office in the Rock and Samuel L Jackson are the real cops.
Joe: Yeah. You thinking what I’m thinking?
Clip: Part aim for the bushes.
Greg: This basically is serious. The other guys.
Joe: I. That is exactly the vibe you when you meet him because he was like, he’s got like two scenes with him at the beginning. Yeah. Of the movie. Yeah. And the one that I remember is like in the cafeteria where he’s like, oh, someone’s like in shot in slow motion as Jon Bernthal walks in. Yeah. And it does like a, like a half nod, like, you know, at Rami Malik’s character and then goes off to the cool kids table and like, he’s there with his other analyst friends, and I think they make some sort of comment.
Joe: It was a total, oh, you know, that guy, you must, you know, how did you get in with that? You know, the cool kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So another take of this movie would be from Jon Bernthal perspective, you know, on this stuff, like it’s his revenge tour and it’s just a straight up action movie total. And I would love that movie too, you know.
Joe: But I’m it’s also a movie we’ve seen a million times this trope. And I, I ran out of time to kind of find that. But the revenge tour, the oh, he’s got Special Forces training, black ops, whatever has been done to death, I feel like it is, it may have jumped the shark almost in terms of a character backstory that we have.
Joe: Like, I feel like we got who is the transporter? Why can’t I think of his name?
Greg: Statham.
Joe: Yeah, Statham. I like every character Jason Statham plays now is like from The Beekeeper to whatever it is. It’s like former Black Ops just wants to work in his garden. But then something happens and he’s got to make things right and go on a revenge tour. Like, yeah, we’ve seen the that, but we haven’t seen the version like this.
Joe: And that’s why I think it’s so interesting. Tony. No, I would much rather watch the twist on that. And I think this movie does a good job of following the same beats, but twisting them enough to make it interesting. And, you know, Rami Malek isn’t your typical leading man. That’s the point, that the whole point of this movie is that everything is not the typical what we’re used to.
Joe: So yeah, I think if you missed that in watching it, then it may fall flat for you. But again, that’s that was I think the whole point of what they’re trying to say. Totally, totally.
Greg: Yeah. This is dangerously close to a super smart, mundane job movie like taken, like The Beekeeper, but it’s not.
Joe: Yeah, yeah.
Greg: I bet it gets that audience.
Joe: Yeah. I think if you’re going into it expecting that, it might be people that you could get let down with like, oh, this is going to be an action.
Greg: Sure.
Joe: Fest. Yeah. And it’s not that movie like there is a Venn diagram. They do overlap in terms of what they’re trying to do. But the overlap is not the very small overlap on those movies. And I think it’s to this movie’s credit. So this is a better movie that those are.
Joe: But it’s not a John Wick action movie. Where are you? Sure, sure. Oh my God, this is you know, I have never seen anything like this before.
Greg: I mean, there’s it’s the opposite of gun two. He can’t shoot a gun.
Joe: Yeah. You had mentioned this in, I think, our last episode, but like, you know, we’ve kind of talked about like, the different action eras of, you know, we have diehard which kind of kicks off the everyman action hero. Then that kind of runs through the 90s and we have Jason Bourne, which kind of changes it again. Yep.
Joe: And we have John Wick that comes along. And you could ask what’s the next one? And I’m curious, there’s some if this could be the beginning of something new in terms of where action movies are going or, you know, what is the next innovation that we haven’t seen or is done in such a way that we just, you know, is going to set off 15 years of everyone trying to copy that.
Joe: Yeah. What is it? You know, I don’t know if it’s this, but I’m, I think we’re at a point where we need it because I feel like some of where we are is a little stale with the. Yeah. The movie is out there. Yeah.
Greg: Yep. You mentioned Bourne and I, I was I wanted to mention that this movie does seem to be kind of like virtue signaling. Bourne Identity ish things, especially in the music. Listen to this music right here.
Greg: The strings right there.
Greg: That is a virtue signal in music for.
Clip: Yeah, yeah, like You’re in Good Hands.
Greg: Is the kind of movie that you love.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: I loved it. It made me feel. It’s like comfort food as far as, like, string arrangements go in that we watch.
Clip:
Joe: I don’t know if you remember when we lived together, but you had this theory, and he used to say whenever it happened, it’d be like, another song saved by the cello, and it would be like a rock song to a rock band that would have strings in it. That was just. And it was like it would just like, take the song up a notch and like, I have one of my favorite song.
Joe: I just saw her Chelsea Wolf in concert, but I got to take Milo, last week. It was awesome. But she has a song, and every time I hear it, one of my favorite songs says it’s got a cello in it. And I think of that line every single time I hear it.
Greg: The saved by the cello, which is the cousin of saved by the Tambourine. There’s a tambourine that saves many songs in rock history. Yeah. That’s awesome, I love it. Let’s listen to Laurence Fishburne talk to Rami Malek. And then I have a question for you on the other side.
Clip: Where you might. There I am, Colonel Henderson. My friends call me Hendo. You will call me Colonel Henderson. I have been asked to give you a refresher course, even though what you’ll learn here is outside the normal curriculum. Thanks to God Almighty, I am the most important person in the world to an operative looking to target enemy combatants.
Clip: Do precisely as I say, and there is a slight chance you may come out of this love.
Clip: Only a slight chance. I’m overestimating your odds to boost your confidence.
Greg: So friends call him Hendo. That came from Laurence Fishburne. He had a friend who was a marine whose name was Henderson, but his friends called him Hendo, and he just kind of threw in that. His character was also known as Hendo. And I was like, all right, Laurence Fishburne, you got it. But taking three syllables down to two.
Greg: Henderson to Hendo. You ever consider this, do you think you should maybe.
Joe: Be,
Greg: Sky ta rather than Sky Tucker?
Joe: I don’t think I can pull it off like. No, like Laurence Fishburne can pull this off. Unfortunately, as I think about it, I’m not I don’t have this cool factor.
Greg: Do you think I could pull off Swain?
Joe: He kind of even changes his hands. I like Hendo. Every swine ho died. Oh, no, I don’t think so. I think only I think only Laurence Fishburne allowed to do this. Now that I think about it though.
Greg: Okay, okay. You know it sounded great until I said it out loud. Let’s be.
Joe: Honest. Yeah.
Greg: Okay. I have a couple very important things to bring out before we move on to the rest of the show here.
Joe: I mean.
Greg: First of all, how have we not had a movie where there was a firing range and the guy picks up the gun and is is amazing. You know, quickly shoots a perfect shot at the firing range the way Laurence Fishburne does. Has that not happened in a movie that we’ve watched yet? How have we gotten this many movies in?
Joe: We do have it as a, a fairly new trope, the gun range.
Greg: Okay, okay, so it has happened.
Joe: Okay. Yeah.
Greg: When Rami Malek is very upset and he’s, he sits down amongst the tall grass outside of his house in this movie. He’s for sure getting Lyme disease, right.
Joe: I would assume there ticks everywhere.
Greg: Yeah, there’s ticks everywhere. Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: The elevator at the CIA.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: It’s the most secretive agency on the planet yet. The elevator announces what floor you’re on whenever they get there.
Joe: Yeah.
Clip: Four minus five. Description and analysis.
Greg: A thing that doesn’t happen in any other elevator on the planet, except at the most secretive agency in history.
Joe: That’s right, that’s right.
Greg: Okay. Very important thing that I need to bring up before we move on. Joe. He replaces the CD in a jukebox at a bar.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: He puts like a CD rom. Kind of like just data, in the spot where ABBA was. And he takes the ABBA CD out. The implication here is that nobody ever presses play on ABBA at this bar. Yeah. How do you feel about that?
Joe: I disagree, I think that that’s a big mistake because I think he cared enough. You know, you have a couple beers, you go over, you putting and you’re going to put on dancing Queen or something like that. Yeah, you’ve got to. And so I think that that was, you know, a mistake on his part. I absolutely think they’re going to play that video.
Greg: There is no bigger sign that he is an amateur. Then people won’t want to hear ABBA at this bar.
Joe: There you go. That’s right. It is also a little bit of a red herring where he does like, tricked the, the CIA. Who’s on to him? We this kind of this subplot throughout the movie, have he found some information about the group that is kind of working for that? They’re they’re they’re using drones and then blaming it on insurgents and stuff like that.
Joe: So, yeah, they’re trying to capture him at the same time. And he kind of puts them on a wild goose chase, which is kind of fun. So they’re trying to catch him, but he is always ahead of where they are, which is pretty cool to see. I really enjoyed that part of the movie, honestly.
Greg: Well, Joe, it occurs to me that some people out there in the great bad universe may not have watched this movie. The amateur, if you can, can you even imagine? I think the world didn’t see this.
Joe: Oh, I can, I don’t understand it, you know.
Greg: I mean, it was last week for you, but whatever.
Joe: Yeah. You know, but now it’s. I’m totally, yeah, totally on board. And you know, the rain rainbows are more beautiful. You know, the sound of children laughing sounds better. It’s it’s everything is better about this, you know? So ice cream tastes sweeter. Yeah. Yeah. I have a deeper appreciation for the the pollen and flowers I this movie.
Joe: The sound of, of, dry leaves under my feet and the fall weather hits a little bit sharper, you know.
Greg: Everyone. Yeah. Feels that way, believe me. Yeah. About the American.
Joe: Yeah. The toe beans of the kittens are even more cute. You know, it just like everything is better about that.
Greg: Various.
Joe: The smell of popcorn is brings back stronger nostalgia from the movies we’ve seen in the past. It’s just a wistfulness that you don’t get.
Greg: I feel like you’re just getting started. Keep going.
Joe: The single tier that you would usually have is now, you know, to to double tier a double tier.
Greg: That’s a 100% growth in two years.
Joe: Exactly. An old friends text means a little bit more when that comes through. When you haven’t talked to them in a while, you.
Greg: Know, now that you’ve seen the immature.
Joe: Yeah. Just because of this movie instead. Yeah. Pretty amazing, you know.
Greg: So it sounds like life has gotten pretty good.
Joe: Yeah. Just because of this movie. Just just.
Greg: Recently?
Joe: Yeah. Just recently. It was terrible before this movie.
Greg: You were coasting for quite a while there. And then you saw the amateur. Yeah. Sam Cunningham just giving you the gift of the. Of the amateur.
Joe: Really? Yeah.
Greg: All right. Well, Joe, it occurs to me that some people in the GBU have not watched this movie. And I worry about those people, honestly.
Joe: Because me too.
Greg: They don’t even notice dead leaves under their toes. They, the children’s laughter means nothing to them. There’s still these single tier idiots.
Clip:
Joe: I’ve never noticed, the the toe beans on a kitten. It’s just sad for them. Oh, my gosh, they’re.
Greg: They’re they’re monsters. They’re monsters. And so why don’t we pretend like you’re walking down the aisles of a Blockbuster Video in 2025? Because let’s say in 2025, Blockbuster Video was all over the place once again, and you could walk down the aisles and pick up boxes of movies like a DVD or a Blu ray or a VHS box, and you could read the back of that box to find out if this was the movie that you should watch tonight.
Greg: That’s right. It’s time for the back of the box.
Joe: It’s the back of the box. When the wife of a CIA computer analyst, Charles Heller, Rami Malik, is killed in a terrorist attack, a fire is ignited in him. Using his skills and intelligence, he goes on a worldwide revenge tour. Hot on his tail are his former colleagues at the CIA. Who can he trust? Can he learn enough spycraft to survive a life on the run?
Joe: Will he be able to pull the trigger when the moment comes?
Greg: Wow dot dot dot. How do you punctuate the end of that? Unbelievable. Yeah, that’s an incredible back of the box.
Joe: I think. Yeah, I think you rent that movie as well. I think, I think I.
Greg: Rent that oh my gosh, what a good teaser for this movie. But you know what Joe? I’ve had it with the lies. I’ve had it with the marketing copy. You know, it’s, it’s 20, 26. Now it’s time for some real honesty. And so can we get the real honest Joe’s guy, Tucker, back of the box.
Joe: I spent most of this movie trying to understand how that voice comes out of Rami Malek. This movie is an entertaining twist on a movie. We have seen many times before. It answers the question, what if John Wick worked in it? So from a genre twisting perspective, it was fun. Unfortunately, Laurence Fishburne and Jon Bernthal are underused gems in this movie.
Joe: This movie should have been a five episode prestige TV show on AMC or HBO. Then the characters and the twist could have been fully explored. That said, I thoroughly enjoyed this movie and look forward to any sequels should they come.
Greg: Awesome! 100% agree I meant to circle back to, Jon Bernthal because he shows up at the beginning and they just kind of shows up at the end.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: And speaking of super smart, mundane jobs, there was a movie, maybe because Jon Bernthal was in it. I was thinking about the movie The Accountant quite a bit. When I watch this movie. This movie is very kind of accountant adjacent. I feel like they could be sold in a box set. I think you like this movie more than The Accountant.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: I cannot wait for us to do The Accountant two on this show. I think America can’t wait. Maybe the whole planet. Yeah, I’m checked in with the whole planet. But Jon Bernthal is really quite incredible in this movie. And they have this scene where you think he has shown up at the end to expose that he’s a bad guy and he’s there to kill Rami Malek because this is a spy movie.
Greg: So obviously that’s that’s what must be happening. But what happens instead is an incredible scene between the two of them. Can we listen to that real quick?
Joe: Yeah, absolutely.
Greg: Okay. Okay.
Joe: I love this scene and I yeah, I just have to say I was with you every beat of this is like, okay, this is going to be a fight scene. This is, you know, we’re. Yeah, it is it. We’re waiting for the reveal and it totally was a perfect scene that if you cut from the movie, you don’t really lose anything.
Joe: It just is in there because you just have a great scene with two amazing actors.
Greg: And it’s it’s like the other quiet scenes that we’ve had. And it’s it’s not playing into tropes. It’s just. Yeah. Two people. Let’s listen.
Clip: Yeah.
Clip: That’s what this means.
Clip: You’re here to kill me. Yeah. No really what I do mean I’m, I set you up to get killed, you know, facilitated. What are you looking for? Me? I’m not my assassin. Use this game. What do you think this is, an assassin? Look like me? It can be anyone, And even a slight little nerdy fellow likes to work on computers.
Clip: Only thing dangerous about him is he’s got this dream about rehab in a Cessna just to fly it around. Prove to himself that he’s not afraid. If I. You show Crusher, no results perceivable issues. Now, these are killer, by the way. I’ll show you some really? Oh. I got into you. I almost didn’t recognize you. And I said to the team, now there’s no way I am.
Clip: What do you want? Honestly? You save your life, and then how are you going to do that joke? You kill three people. Are you done? Have you had enough? No. I want the guy who pulled the trigger. I want them more than me. That’s pretty cold blooded. You think they’re going to let you leave Russia? I mean, how does that even work?
Clip: How do you leave here? The only way you leave here is in a box. But if you walk out, you’re right. Now with me. I can help you. Nobody shoot me. I’m here on my own. Shit. Maybe you got a future in this field. Maybe we can figure something out like that. I just I have a future in the field.
Clip: But I could have sworn you just said I have no future. Look, I’m not gonna sit here and pretend like I understand what’s going on with you. I don’t, okay? I’ve never felt that. Your loss, I get it. But you honored her. You think she what you to. She wants you to die here in this country with these people.
Clip: She would want you home, man.
Clip: I can’t go home.
Greg: Pretty incredible. Pretty incredible. We should say that the bad guy at the end of the movie is actually Michael Stolberg on a boat. And he, I don’t have that clip, but it’s another great scene of like thoughtful people talking. It’s not.
Joe: An arch evil.
Greg: Person. It’s incredible. It’s incredible. And I wonder why is everybody in this movie so likable? It’s the most likable group of people that have ever been assembled. Yeah, in a movie.
Joe: I’m blanking on movies that have those scenes in it, but it made me want more movies with those kinds of scenes in them. Yeah, yeah. You know, and I feel like there have been action movies where I was like, you know, you kind of get the the monologuing at the end with the bad guy. But throughout this movie there are moments and conversations and themes that are talked about.
Joe: You just don’t get that very often anymore. Where a movie takes its time to put a scene like that in there, or to have kind of the final confrontation with the bad guy, that doesn’t end in a crazy action sequence that’s, you know, this big set piece that’s, you know, ten minutes long. It’s a quiet scene between two really good actors.
Joe: And it’s I loved it. You know, I think that that’s part of where I really love this movie. Like when you think it’s going to make a right, it makes the left. Yeah. You know, we I’ve talked about this before, but like, you know, I’ve been I play along with the movie like, oh where are we going with this or are they setting this up because I’ve seen so many of these where it’s like, yeah.
Joe: And they play into it sometimes with, you know, setting up some of the things that happen throughout. But having a scene where Jon Bernthal and Rami Malek, just how much of that was ad lib of just them, here are the here are the specs of the scene. Have a conversation. Because it felt natural. Yeah. And there was this like, can who can you trust in this scene?
Joe: Can you really trust Jon Bernthal? Maybe like I still was as as soon as he was leaving, I was like, I don’t know if he’s going to walk out and and shooting totally or totally what’s going to happen, but I love that. I love it when I’m surprised about what’s going to happen in a movie.
Greg: That’s really well put. That’s incredible. All right, Joe, should we get to box office? And the critical response for the amateur?
Joe: Absolutely.
Greg: This movie had a production budget of $60 million.
Joe: Oh, that’s cheap by these by $2,025. So that’s awesome.
Greg: It’s worldwide box office was $96 million. It made $40 million in America, 55 internationally. And so it was not a super profitable movie after, half of that was given back to the studio half which is kept by the theaters. However, when it hit Hulu, it became one of the most watched movies.
Joe: On.
Greg: Hulu’s streaming service. And so that created a bit of,
Joe: Reconsideration of this movie.
Greg: So we’ll always have that. I think this movie absolutely should have a sequel. You know, I need Tom.
Joe: Yeah. Me too.
Greg: What do you think the critics score is on Rotten Tomatoes for this movie?
Joe: I mean, it feels like a 70, so I were doing that.
Greg: It absolutely feels like a 70. This is the one of the 70s movies I’ve ever seen.
Joe: Based on the box office. I’m worried that it probably I’m going to go I’m actually going to go with 6061.
Greg: How are you so good at this? That’s incredible.
Joe: I have I’m in touch with the, the critics by.
Greg: All right. We don’t have a lot of audience scores, verified ratings. We have somewhere over 2500 on Rotten Tomatoes. But still, it gives us the popcorn meter. It gives us an audience score. And what do you think that is on Rotten Tomatoes?
Joe: I’ll go 70 on that.
Greg: 87%.
Joe: 87. Oh wow. Everybody that a lot. Yeah okay.
Greg: That’s like a bunch of great fine hearts out there.
Joe: That’s what that is. Yeah I’m I’m very curious to hear what people thought or what the critics out of this movie, because I feel like the audience got it more than the critics. Got it.
Greg: Yeah. I mean this came out in April of 2025. I don’t know what else was coming out at the time. Is this the April best movie that’s ever come out? Is this a January movie? Had this come out in January, I think it would have had 100% on Rotten Tomatoes.
Joe: Yeah, I think all right.
Greg: All right. Well, we always start with the Seattle Times review of the movie. Unfortunately, the Seattle Times did not review this movie. So saw it and Moira did not feel like going to this one. And so what they do when that happens is they run a syndicated review from LA. Katie Walsh, reviewed it and said while the film’s execution seems expert on the surface, the internal narrative design is unfortunately, Ham handed and woefully dull.
Greg: 1.5 out of four stars wow.
Joe: Wow. Woefully dull Ham handed might be a good name for this podcast, but mostly dull. We are not woefully dull. We might be dull. We’re not woefully dull.
Greg: Ham handed would be a great name for this show, but it absolutely gets a ding. Alyssa Wilkinson from The New York Times wrote, Charlie is both too savvy when it comes to tech stuff and too hapless when it comes to spycraft to fit the bill, and the film ends with more of a shrug than a revelation or even a gut punch.
Joe: I get where they’re going with that, but I disagree. I think it’s a it’s better than that.
Greg: I don’t feel a shrug at the end of this movie.
Joe: I yeah.
Greg: Let me be fully honest with you, I watched this movie twice in the last week, but the first time I couldn’t remember how it ended. And so when he gets to the boat and he gets to that final confrontation with the bad guy, I was actually on my phone as well. Kind of like reading things on my phone while I was watching the movie, and I, for the first time in my life, put my phone down and just could not take my eyes off the screen.
Greg: I was so into it. So I totally disagree. That was not a shrug. It absolutely had me.
Joe: In the palm of his hand. Yeah, yeah. All right.
Greg: From variety, Owen Gleiberman says the movie isn’t badly made. It’s never less than watchable, but a lot of pulp has been stuffed into its blender. He gave a positive review, but had some caveats. Gregory Newson from Slant Magazine says The Amateur is a relaxed and pleasurable throwback to the sci fi pulp of the 1970s and 80s, yet told with a mostly honest appraisal of the CIA’s ethical failings.
Greg: 2.5 out of four I agree.
Joe: I think it’s a low on that on the number scale, and I think I nailed it on the verbage there. Yeah, yeah.
Greg: Michael Phillips for the Chicago Tribune, who is awesome. I’m a big fan. He says a film neither here nor there. Two out of four stars.
Joe: Neither here nor there might be a podcast name. Yes.
Greg: That is absolutely how we talk about movies. David Rooney from The Hollywood Reporter says it at least looks and feels like a real movie. That might sound like not much of a distinction, but in this age of assembly line streaming originals that play like bland knock offs of a dozen multiplex hits you’ve seen before, it’s not nothing either.
Joe: I allow it.
Greg: Yeah. Anybody who’s going to nod at the craft of this movie I’m on board with. All right, let’s get to Kevin Ma, one of our favorite people, notoriously hot and cold on movies from The Times UK. He says it would be funny if it weren’t so dull and so strangely played by Malick.
Greg: An actor who seemingly believes that a complex internal life is best illustrated by hyperactive facial muscles and the blank stare of a sullen zombie. Two out of four stars. We’ve got to get Kevin Monroe on this podcast.
Joe: Yes we do. That’s awesome.
Greg: Stephanie, Zach Rick from time magazine says it’s constructed with a breezy sense of confidence. I like that review and we’ll finish with the San Francisco Chronicle. Michael or Donna says Charlie’s capacities are fascinating, but it’s his limitations, including a deeply wounded psyche that makes the film so much more interesting than the average genre piece. Three out of four stars.
Joe: Yeah, I think that’s the perfect one to end on. Either is exactly how I feel about this.
Greg: Totally, totally. All right, Joe, is it time for us to get to drinking games?
Joe: Oh my God, I’m so excited to get to drinking games again. Don’t have to be drinking alcohol can be, the beverage of your choice. And what I’m so excited about. And this is why I know this is one of our movies. This has all but one of our stock drinking games in it. No wonder I loved it.
Joe: And we’ll start with our silent helicopter. Do we want to have a caveat for a boat out of nowhere? And then we have hit every single one of them.
Greg: My deep affection for helicopter out of nowhere is so strong that I cannot say it’s a one for one. This is not a lateral move.
Joe: No.
Greg: But if you’re not going to have a helicopter out of nowhere, my very favorite thing you could have out of nowhere is a silent boat.
Joe: Yeah. So what? We’ll let you do if you’re playing along at home is that is on you. If you want to have it, you can count it. If not, you don’t have to. But going through them all, if you’re playing along, there is a push in and enhance.
Greg: So many.
Joe: So many pushing and when two people share a slow motion look in the middle of chaos happens multiple time. We have an explosion with silent suffering ringing in the ears. The opening credits sound marks in a place with whatever that hacker sound is that they used a lot. It literally has a flashback. Almost two minutes.
Greg: Amazing.
Joe: I was so happy I thought of you instantly in that moment. So, Oh my God. It’s like literally two minutes later and here we are in five. Back of that scene. So great. Mostly there is not bad CGI in this, although the pool scene, at least on my TV, it was a little rough when they when that pool explodes and crashes down.
Joe: Okay, there are great bad shots on a surprise boat. Out of nowhere. There are explicable wet streets. Sometimes it is raining and inexplicably wet streets. In this movie there is a give us the room moment. I was so happy about that.
Greg: Can I play it?
Joe: Yes, please.
Greg: Here it is.
Joe: Ladies and gentlemen, please give us the room and go have coffee.
Greg: I mean, if you’re going to get kicked out of the room you’re in your boss saying, go have coffee now is basically the best thing a basket ever say to me.
Joe: Yeah. So. Exactly. It’s very.
Greg: Gracious. It’s very gracious, very gracious.
Joe: And then we have a cell phone smash and then we have Interpol and the Finnish Navy at the last second.
Greg: Is this a new Finnish Navy drinking game?
Joe: It might be, I know there are boats. Maybe there are helicopters. And I just didn’t remember it. So there’s like lots of things that are happening because like, while they’re the bad guy and Rami Malek are having their, their last, their big confrontation, he has taken control of the boat. And I don’t remember now if there was a helicopter out of nowhere, there might have been at the very end.
Joe: Now that I think about it, I feel like there might have been, but it may have just been the Finnish Navy and Interpol. We don’t know. Okay, I’m going all out. Yeah.
Greg: Give me just a second here. There is a helicopter. There is a helicopter.
Joe: Okay, so we have all of them. Helicopter out of nowhere. Oh, my God, this movie is perfect in every way.
Greg: When you’re on a boat, on the water, you wouldn’t hear a helicopter coming.
Clip: No no, no. Oh.
Greg: Wow. That’s incredible.
Joe: Okay, so on the spot, we have determined that it hits every single one of our drinking games. The only other movie to do so is, Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning.
Greg: Which happens in the first 45 minutes. Is that what you said?
Joe: Yes. First, our.
Greg: First hour.
Joe: Perfectly up to the first hour.
Greg: What do we call something that hits every drinking game a full what?
Joe: We haven’t got to think of something that’s got to be some drinking term that we can come up with. Like a full keg. Yeah.
Greg: A full dead reckoning.
Joe: A full dead reckoning without I will I will do some some research on this and see if we can come up with the right listener.
Greg: Joe. Guy Tucker is actually stroking his chin as he thinks about this. That means he’s really thinking deeply.
Joe: I mean, it’s almost like it’s like top shelf or something like that, you know, because it hits everything. It’s perfect. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I mean, let me. Yeah, let me do some. I’ll do some digging. I now I’ve, I’ve got to come up with the perfect term. I know it’s out there. I will find it. I will report back in our bonus episode.
Joe: Okay. Coming to us very soon.
Joe: So it has all of our drinking games, but I’m going to toss it to you for the first bespoke drinking game. What do you have, Greg Steinhart.
Greg: All right. Every time Rami Malek looks overwhelmed, take a drink.
Joe: A lot, especially in the first part of this movie. Yeah, mine I’ve already mentioned. But any time you question how Rami Malek has the voice that he has, I could drink. It was constant for me. I was just like, what? How does he have that voice? He has the Queen.
Greg: Doesn’t have that voice. What if it’s like post-processing for his whole career?
Joe: Yeah. Be awesome. It’s like Pee-Wee Herman in real life. Yeah, awesome.
Greg: He does do things with his face that make you step back a little bit, like. Yeah. And so my next drinking game is any time. Right. Rami Malik’s face makes you go.
Joe: Oh,
Greg: Take a drink.
Joe: Yeah. Might want to intersperse that one with water, because that happens a lot.
Joe: I’m combining two here. So any time Rami Malek eats an apple or Rachel Brosnahan drinks coffee, take a drink.
Greg: Wow. Nice. Okay, I have to ask you a very serious question. When Rachel Brosnahan drinks the delicious coffee, the espresso that he makes very technically accurate espresso that he makes, she does the thing where she, like, holds the cup with both hands.
Joe:
Greg: Where do you stand on people drinking coffee?
Joe: That way I feel like they’re in, commercial for, like, a pumpkin spice. Yeah. Something potpourri. Yeah, that’s what it reminds me of. It is. It is the fakest way to drink coffee. Ever. I have never had coffee like that. Unless I’m, like, exaggerating me. Like pretending I’m in, like, a, you know, commercial for Sky reserve or something like that, sir.
Joe: No, sir. Speaking of Sky, Rosie, if you’d like to read.
Clip: I,
Greg: I try to be a very gracious and, accepting person, but we are going to need an entirely new kind of prison for people who drink coffee this way. It drives me so crazy.
Joe: Yes, I agree, it’s like the clearest signal that there’s nothing in the cup to me of, like, them holding it like that. And it’s clear that they there’s no liquid in there at all.
Greg: Yeah, yeah, yeah. My next drinking game is any time Rami Malek pukes, take a drink. Oh.
Joe: That’s.
Joe: My next one is, anytime there’s references to puzzles or Rami Malek being a puzzle like.
Greg: That’s really good. Any time we see you dead, Rachel Brosnahan.
Joe: Oh, yeah, I have that like I have. It is like the dreams or the flashbacks of her. Anytime there are hacking noises, take a drink, which is also one of our tropes. But in the beginning of this movie, anytime he’s typing, it’s got the fake whatever. Oh my God, that’s so annoying to me.
Greg: Now here I just, hold on just a second.
Clip: I need to type this out real quick.
Greg: Oh. Is it my turn?
Joe: Yes. Your turn.
Greg: Any time you feel concerned about Rami Malek getting tickets, take a drink.
Clip:
Joe: Just one time. So finish your drink. Yeah. That one maybe. Yeah, probably multiple times. He does sleep outside in Paris somewhere.
Greg: So it’s late in Paris?
Joe: Yes. Classic. Tick. Lady in Paris. Any time there are conversations about Rami Malek overestimating the odds of success of something. Yeah, with Laurence Fishburne. Take a drink.
Greg: Love it. Anytime you hear a cell phone vibrate, take a drink.
Joe: Awesome. I have anytime you hear the voice of the person who he’s talking with and his sort of computerized but not quite.
Greg: Taken in Cologne.
Joe: Yeah. Equal sign. Yeah.
Greg: That’s a good one. How about any time there is Hobbs and Shaw travel logic?
Joe: Oh, that’s so good. That happens so much in the last part of this movie. Yeah, any time either Laurence Fishburne or Jon Bernthal are in another country and they speak the language of that country. Yeah, take a drink.
Greg: How about any time you notice Rami Malek breathe acting.
Greg: Take a drink.
Joe: That’s awesome. Any time Rami Malek says she mattered when referring to his dead wife. Take a drink. Because I think he says that a million times. Yeah. As he’s having she mattered. So those are the moments that kind of I was a little much for me. I was like all right we got it, we got it. You missed your wife.
Greg: But we got a movie to make here.
Joe: Yeah that be all right.
Greg: My last one is any time you notice the Bourne Identity strings, take a drink.
Joe: Awesome. I have a couple more. I have any time. Know. He’s got a very specific look that he has when a scene end and he’s on his computer and he’s just, like, set something up. Yeah. So he’s like, typing, typing and either closes his laptop or like, it ends with him, like. But he’s got a very specific look.
Joe: And then any time he’s holding a gun at someone and doesn’t shoot them.
Greg: It’s really good.
Joe: And then conversations about feelings, anytime there’s a conversation about feelings.
Greg: Doesn’t mean there’s a lot of scenes where there’s like a guy at a computer doing something in this movie, and typically that drives me nuts, but kind of didn’t in this movie.
Joe: I don’t know why. Yeah. Kind of worked for me. So. Interesting.
Greg: All right Joe, sometimes when we’re watching these movies, we kind of notice the building blocks that make a movie. That is one of our movies, a great bad movie. And so I’m wondering if you can break that down for us with a time constraint. That’s right. It’s time for Joe’s Trope Lightning Round, aka signs. You might be watching a great bad movie.
Greg: And this time, Joe, I kind of feel like I need to make some lightning noises with every single one that you do. So let’s start the clock and get going.
Joe: Okay? Mention a Special Forces characters being on coms Hobbs and Shaw, travel logic for love, guns, multiple passports, throwing things over while a while on a chase on foot, a file list or something that needs to be hidden. Yours foreign. So new skills gained just out of water. Sound effects on things that don’t make sound. I hacking blasting gas stove lines to blow up the bad guys.
Joe: You know the gun range hero becomes the hero moment trope of the hero being knocked down and must work the game and master new skills trope of jumping into water where the foundry disappears. Kill the henchman or the bad, but the bad guy lives fast as something reluctant. Hero revenge is the driver of the protagonist downloading a file under pressure, checking if a game is loaded and the protagonist is captured but not killed away, killed right away escaped, and is saved by his wild I don’t our profiling right?
Greg: Incredible. You did it right in time.
Joe: With a lot of tropes.
Greg: That’s an amazing amount of tropes. All right, Joe, let’s keep this train going. Is it time for us to move on to the questions that we just haven’t had the guts to address so far? Is it time for important questions?
Joe: Yes. Let’s do it.
Greg: All right. Joe, did the movie hold up then I will say absolutely. This movie held up in 2025. You hadn’t seen it yet, but for you, Joe’s guy, Tucker, does the amateur hold up now?
Joe: Absolutely. I think it holds up really well. It’s great.
Greg: How hard do they sell the good guy?
Joe: Pretty good throughout the movie there. They don’t do it like in one scene. Yeah, but they do. They sprinkle it in throughout and they absolutely. They’re like.
Greg: Let’s just like shoehorn in his IQ being 170 or whatever.
Joe: It was. Yes. Yeah.
Greg: All right. How hard do they sell the bad guy.
Joe: Well there’s that one scene where Rami Malek breaks down who all the bad guys are. So I can say, pretty. It’s not typical of because it’s more about his journey to get to the bad guys, but they do. He does have that scene where, you know, you mentioned he does it in one night and has figured out who the bad, who everybody is and is.
Greg: The bad guy.
Joe: Kind of the CIA in this movie, kind of. Yeah, yeah. I don’t know why I kind of whispered that. Yeah. Do you think they’re listening? They probably are. Yeah.
Greg: All right, Joe, next important question. Why is there romance in this movie?
Joe: It’s to show the power of love and the power of revenge. That he must go on to kill everyone. So. Yeah. And I buy it because she mattered. Yeah. Wow.
Greg: Okay. Hold on.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: Take a drink.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: All right. Joe, are we bad people for loving this movie?
Joe: I don’t think so. I feel like this is a good movie. This is not. It doesn’t have all the typical bad stereotypes that we’re used to. So if we are, I think bad is too strong of a word. Yeah.
Greg: There’s some pejorative term that we need to come up with. Bad feels a little bit too strong. Joe, does this movie deserve a sequel?
Joe: And deserves 2 to 3 sequels. And I want more Jon Bernthal. Right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. That needs to happen. Yep. Yeah, yeah.
Greg: Does this movie deserve a prequel?
Joe: I would allow it, but it would be a Jon Bernthal. How Rami Malek saved his life.
Greg: Yeah. When you were talking about this movie early on in this episode, you were saying there was a lot of stuff that they kind of didn’t really show. I feel like that was all prequel territory. Yeah. Having said that, yeah, I’ll say maybe, I don’t know.
Joe: Yeah, I’m anti prequel. It would be a standalone to be of like yeah it would be it, but it wouldn’t be about Rami Malek at all. He’d be a like a side character.
Greg: All right Joe, should this movie have been nominated for Best Picture at the Oscars in 2026?
Joe: Probably. But I need to know what it’s what it’s replacing.
Greg: Well, let’s see, the nominees were one battle after another. Which was the winner? Begonia Frankenstein, Hamnet Mati Supreme, the secret agent. Sentimental value centers train dreams, and you know, the last movie.
Joe: I don’t remember. I think it’s going to annoy me.
Greg: It’s a little film called F1 The Moon.
Joe: That’s right. Yes, this movie can replace that right this second.
Greg: We just want to say congratulations to everyone involved at the Amateur for being nominated for Best Picture in 2026. And while I disagree with it, replacing F1 because I’m getting the amateur in there, I’m totally fine with it. So congratulations.
Joe: And should have won.
Greg: Winners.
Joe: Yeah, totally.
Greg: Next important question Joe, how can this movie be fixed? AKA who should be in the remake?
Joe: I mentioned how this can be fixed. I would I want this to be a prestige TV mini series.
Greg: Sure.
Joe: Give me five episodes. Yeah, and then we can really kind of pull apart all the characters and kind of give every, all the amazing actors their time to shine within it, because I feel like even like Rachel Brosnahan, Jon Bernthal and Laurence Fishburne are underutilized throughout this show. Yep. So it would give them time to breathe. How do you fix this movie?
Greg: I think that we could just straight up flip the cast. You know, the movie, Pretty in Pink. John Hughes movie back in the 80s?
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: Written by John Hughes, produced by John Hughes, directed by Howard Deutch. They’re making this movie from the perspective of a girl, and John Hughes turns to the director one day while they’re behind the camera and says, what if we make this exact same movie next year and we do it from the perspective of the dude, and they call this some kind of wonderful?
Greg: And it had, I think it was Jennifer Jason Leigh. It had Leah Thompson and Eric Stoltz. It’s great movie, great soundtrack too. Anyways, so same movie, but from a different perspective. I say we remake this movie, but it is Rachel Brosnahan now who is the amateur, and her husband goes to London and is killed. And Rachel Brosnahan needs to amateur it out.
Joe: Awesome. I mean.
Greg: Which is I think you that’s the term for what they do in this movie. You amateur it out. Yeah.
Joe: Oh yeah. All of the amateur bring it up all over the place.
Greg: Just everywhere. Yeah okay Joe, just a couple more important questions. Do you have time for that?
Joe: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so. I can make it work.
Greg: Joe, when you think about the movie The Amateur, what album is the amateur?
Joe: This is going to be way out there. And it’s kind of an artist that I’m just kind of getting into a little bit.
Greg: Okay.
Joe: And it was. I did a search of like best albums about revenge as kind of as what I did. And so it came up and this album popped up and then I listened to it. It’s also got one of the most amazing performances of one of the songs that like an award show, that I’ve ever seen, it might be the best award show performance I’ve ever seen.
Joe: This is Rosalia Lux. Oh, wow. And there’s a performance that she does at the Brit Awards from earlier this year. And it’s also this album came out in 2025. It’s got Bjork in it. It’s an operatic song that also turns into this dance song. And her performance. It is worth a look. I’ve watched it many, many times.
Joe: I get goosebumps every time I watch it. It is just like a perfect performance that you just do not see coming. And I’m getting to appreciate her music. It’s not all of it. And that’s amazing. I think she sings in 13 different languages on that album. Wow. She’s a genre bending artist. That’s kind of lumped into what I think would be kind of the pop would be her main genre, but the song that I’m thinking of that would be on the playlist is an opera.
Joe: Like she sings it as an aria. But it you should Google that right now. Find that Rosalia Brit Awards. I don’t know that there is a performance that tops that at at an award show ever.
Greg: All right. We will put that on the episode page of Great Bad movies.com.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: For the amateur.
Joe: What album is this for you? I’m very curious.
Greg: So I didn’t think too long on this. I just was trying to find the artist who went off to make their own album. And in retrospect, do you think, oh my gosh, of course, Rami Malek made The Amateur. Of course he produced this and got all of his friends and his super talented, incredible actor friends to be in it.
Greg: And so the first thing I thought of was Mike Shinoda making his solo record.
Joe: Under the.
Greg: Name Fort Minor. You know, Mike Shinoda is.
Joe: I don’t know, I feel like I need to do a deep dive into this right away.
Greg: He’s like the rapper guy in Linkin Park, okay? He did his own rap album. He got signed by Jay-Z to make a rap album. And, it’s really great. I love this hour, but it’s such a no brainer. It’s like, of course Mike Shinoda should have broken off from Linkin Park. That seems like it should have happened halfway through the making of the first album, but, it’s more solid.
Greg: It’s like a great bad movie. It’s like, you know what? The album is actually really great. There’s really good reasons to listen to that album. And so Fort Minor is the amateur. I have the exact same feeling for that album as I do this movie.
Joe: Awesome.
Greg: All right, Joe, what kind of rating are you going to give this movie? We score our movies with a, sliding scale of great bad movie. Good bad movie. Okay, bad movie, bad, bad movie in worst case scenarios, awful bad movie. How do you rate the amateur?
Joe: I could try to spin this. This is a good, bad movie and no one would believe me. This is a great bad movie. I mean, it’s not even to me close. Like I, you know, there are pieces of it that, you know, you could pull that. But this has all the the makings of one of our movies. Right?
Joe: How many tropes are in it, how it has every one of our drinking games. Yeah. And it’s a really great movie too. So it’s a great bad movie. And it’s just I can’t even fake the argument that is anything else.
Greg: 100% completely. They’re there with you. Great great great great great. Yeah. Great great great great great bad movie.
Joe: Yes. Well done Sam I appreciate this again. Sam Cunningham, our amazing editor, probably the best editor in the history of editing on podcast editing.
Greg: Sure.
Joe: And entering I don’t want to like, oversell his, his skills, but no, no, no, that’s accurate. That’s accurate. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, I did I do think he saved the world, probably 4 or 5 times. Sure picked this movie. And now, you know, the the laughter of children is more melodic and harmonious and sweet. Puddles, when you step in them, they don’t seep into my shoes and make my socks wet now.
Joe: Oh, that’s a bonus. Yeah, we hit the rainy season.
Greg: Season? Yeah.
Joe: Yeah, yeah. The moon is always at a perfect crescent. Are are full now. So.
Joe: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, anytime I’m by the water, you know dolphins and orcas just jump out when I’m around. That’s what this movie.
Clip:
Greg: When you’re riding on your horse you notice the Vanilla Ice is on his weird weirdly colored motorcycle right on the other side of the fence. Like an ice.
Joe: Yeah. Exactly. You know, and you know, and I happens to be when I’m riding my own motorcycle, I, I’m now motorcycle jousting with Tom cruise. La mission impossible two. And it’s amazing.
Greg: Every time you take an Uber, you look to your right. You notice that Rami Malik is running alongside, smiling outside the window.
Joe: Yes. And it was. It’s not creepy and off putting it all in any way.
Joe: It would have been before but now it’s just totally normal. So yeah. Yeah. Totally. You know. Yeah. So but, but that’s all I mean that’s it. Other than that okay I don’t know. Yeah.
Greg: Okay. So he could have done better is what I hear you saying. You could have done better.
Joe: Yeah. Got it done a little better. Just a little better.
Greg: I felt like a short list, to be honest.
Joe: Yeah, yeah, let’s be honest. I mean, it can be all things, all people. And, you know, just most things to most people. The Sam Cunningham story.
Clip:
Greg: The greatest.
Joe: Name. Yeah.
Greg: Of a biography in history that you are going to begin writing tonight. Most things that most people.
Joe: So, Joe, we did it. Yeah. We have the conversation that needs to be had about the amateur and Sam Spec nailed it. No notes. Perfect pick.
Greg: Two years in a row. Inception last year. The amateur this year. Incredible. He’s two for.
Joe: Two. Yeah. It’s going to be tough. It’s going to be tough. I feel like I’m one out of two I. I regret my pick from last year a little bit really I’m glad we did it. But I feel like it shouldn’t have been my pick. I feel like I it doesn’t hold up to inception and the amateur in the same way.
Joe: Okay, well.
Greg: I hear the word shit in there and you’re just shooting all over us right now.
Joe: I know, I know, sorry everyone.
Greg: All right, well, listener, if you’ve enjoyed this episode, would you please do us a favor and go to wherever you’re listening to it? Apple podcasts.
Joe: Or.
Greg: Spotify.
Joe: And.
Greg: Rate and review this podcast. That’s the best way for us to get the word out. The other great way is for you to tell a friend.
Joe: That,
Greg: You know what? There’s a thing called great bad movies out there. And, you’ve heard the New York Times talk about it. Yeah, it’s, it’s a podcast that comes out every other week, and it’s about people hanging out, watching hilariously entertaining movies, and having the greatest time doing it. So please go to your podcast app and do that when you have the chance.
Joe: Yes, please. And then tell a friend, not even just a one friend. Tell all your friends and then tell your the friends of your friends. And then we’ll become a phenomenon and you know, and some great bad movies for all. It really is what this is about. So.
Greg: I feel like we’re running for office right now possibly.
Joe: I mean midterms are coming up. So you know vote early and often.
Greg: Follow us on Instagram at Great Bad Movies show. You can find out everything else about us on our website. Great bad movies.com. And we look forward to hearing from you.
Joe: Absolutely.
Greg: Send us what movies you think we should be covering.
Joe: Yeah, we need to do an audience pick. Do we do that?
Greg: Last year we did, but not as part of our kind of Greg’s pick. Joe’s pick. Sam’s pick. Should we finish this with, with an audience?
Joe: I think we should finish this with an audience. I think we might have to. Okay, we can do a poll, but, you know, what about the audience? You know, our dear listeners, pick one for us. Okay.
Greg: Everybody, next month on Instagram, there will be a poll, and you can control what episode we do. Oh, scary audience pick. That’s a great idea. Oh my gosh I just noticed the time and I am traveling right now in a foreign country. And I’ve just done a bunch of shots and I’m about to walk on the dance floor.
Greg: And am I crazy or is Laurence Fishburne walking straight towards me right now? I think I need to go. He’s got this weird smirk on his face.
Joe: Yeah, I think you need to go. Yeah, that makes sense. It’s, you know, you never trust Laurence Fishburne in the in the disco. So, I, I’ve got to run to. I’m late. I’ve got to meet my Paul dealer. So, I’ll be right back.
Greg: If that makes sense. That makes sense. And you know what I just realized? I look super American, so I’m just going to take off my hat and my backpack.
Joe: And put.
Greg: Them in the shopping bag while I’m in Turkey.
Joe: Yeah. Perfect. And that. Oh, you look completely like you live here. So it’s that’s a completely different person. That’s awesome. Oh, I am I hope I’m not in the Finnish see again on accident. Because Interpol is and the Finnish Navy are after me, and I got to be I got to be on the lookout for that.
Joe: So I don’t want that to happen twice.
Greg: I’m sure you’d hear him coming.
Joe: Yeah, I’m sure.
Greg: It’s not the Finnish Navy out of nowhere.
Clip: Yeah, that’s.
Greg: All right, Joe. Well, that works for me. So this has been amazing. And thank you, Sam.
Joe: We will see you soon. See you soon.