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This week, on Hotchpotch Production and Ruinous Inadequacies:
Jessica Chastain pitches Simon Kinberg an all-female Mission Impossible on the set of Dark Phoenix, and the result stars Chastain, Penélope Cruz, Diane Kruger, Lupita Nyong’o, and Fan Bingbing chasing a drive that can hack anything on Earth (“like ghosts in a machine”). On paper: perfect. On screen: a movie that went to the trope store and said, I’ll take one of everything. Silent helicopter? Check. Give us the room? CHECK.
Greg explains why he loves this movie more than probably anybody besides Simon Kinberg and will rewatch it every other year for the rest of his life. Joe blames the writing. Together, they try to figure out how a cast this stacked made a movie with a 24% on Rotten Tomatoes… And an 86% from the audience. These are our people.
Listen to the Bonus Episode!
Note: This transcript has been auto-generated, so… You know… It’s not our fault.
Joe: All right, Greg. In the movie we just watched, we get to watch the origin story of a ragtag crew, the 355. Pretty cool name, if you asked me. Yeah. If you had an origin story for your ragtag crew, what would your name be?
Greg: I think you and I are in the same crew.
Joe: Awesome.
Greg: And I think because we met and lived at 1010 North Garden in Bellingham. I think we’re the 1010.
Joe: Absolutely. 1010 for life, I think, is our rallying cry also.
Greg: So you were my first roommate, I was your first roommate. What does the 1010 do based on when we put peas on the thermost at the heater for the house turn on?.
Joe: I remember just when we would hang out with cam and you and me and whoever else was kind of floating through just how much fun we were having doing absolutely nothing. I think we spent more time saying what do you want to do you want to go somewhere you want to do something and we would just kind of do that. I’ll tell you what the 10-10 does
Greg: Never goes to bed because no one’s saying it’s time for bed. Exactly. Which was the greatest thing that’s ever happened to me. Yeah, it was awesome. So yeah, I think that I think the 10-10’s just hang out talking about plans and actually never doing anything. A lot of times they’re probably the tired 10-10 because they fell five in the morning or something crazy and it just was not right it was not right for me for anybody that’s just not cool yeah all right should we get the show I think we should let’s do it
Clip: Remember that’s story that they told us about in training. About George Washington’s first female spy during the revolution. They called her agent 355, because they didn’t want the world to know a real name. But her legacy lives on. We’re the top agents from around the world. American, British, German, Colombian, Chinese. But now we have a common enemy. They can start World War III. From a simple reach of their keyboard. So we need to join forces. You’re the best in the world of what you do. You have cameras in your jewelry, comes in your earrings. You bump, I grab. The target is on the move. You’re not going in there alone. We go together. I like the new team. We’re the 355.
Greg: The year is 2022. And Simon Kinberg teams up with Jessica Chastain to make a movie that she has come up with the movie that she has come up with come up with called the 355. She pitched this movie to him while they were making X-Men Dark Phoenix together. We are talking about Jessica Chastain, Penélope Cruz, Fan Bingbing, Diane Kruger, Lupita Nyong’o, Sebastian Stan, Édgar Ramírez, and I’ll just throw in John Douglas Thompson in there, because I felt like he did a pretty good job. Joe Sky Tucker, this is a very exciting night for me because We are finally getting to a movie that I love for, it’s very hard to say why I love this movie, but I love this movie. We are going to discover why in the next little while. Joe Sky Tucker, what makes the 355 a great bad movie?
Joe: For our listeners, this is the second time we have done this. It was an early practice round for us, I think, when we did it the first time. Yeah, 2022? Definitely like it more this time. The pieces that drive me crazy still drive me crazy in this. But there is this movie I feel like went to the trope store and just said I will take one of everything and for that I love it. I think I know why you love this movie because the opening shot has a helicopter out of nowhere. And then never again do we see a helicopter in the movie. It’s just like, this is for Greg, right here. This is an audience of one and this shot is for him and we are putting this in here. We’ll call that forever the Swinehart. Oh I like it. So the story is interesting. I mean it’s something we’ve seen before you know piece of technology that has the power to do anything you want with it and you know it’s the knock list it’s the this it’s the whatever it’s the God’s eye it’s the entity whatever you want to put to it it’s that trope and then we have a ragtag crew coming together to try to stop it so all of on paper is like just kiss of what we want. Movie is just so stiltedly like let’s get to the next scene and you know I wanted like give me a little Tony Gilroy give me somebody who really understands how people talk and dialogue because if it had better snappier dialogue and like a little bit more drawn characters this could be in a class with the gray man but sadly it is not so okay but tell me Greg Swinehart why do you love this movie more than probably anybody else besides maybe Simon Kinburg why do I love this movie I think I love this movie
Greg: Movie for a lot of reasons. One is the initial goal of it was Jessica Chas Dane thought what if we made an all female Mission Impossible James Bond movie. And that’s just like on paper perfect. You know that sounds great. She’s making a movie with Simon Kinburg in 2019. They’re making X-Men Dark Phoenix and she pitches it to him. Simon Kinberg has written and produced a bunch of the X-Men movies. He produced The Martian, which we did last week, last week, well regarded seemingly nice guy in town and Dark Phoenix completely tanked at the box office it was a pretty big it was the reason X-Men movies stopped getting made and he went out there and did like a press tour of like this is my fault I totally take responsibility for this and I heard an interview with him on Kim Master’s show on KCRW and he was lovely it was like oh my gosh this guy seems great he’s talking about his kids he was talking about the power of of the X-Men story and why it was so great and why he loved raising his kids while making those movies and what those movies taught his kids and blah blah I was just immediately like well I’m gonna track with Simon Kenberg this guy seems awesome and then this was the next movie so I was I was so excited this movie was coming out and we love great bad movies on this show we do on the show. It has to be great for one reason or another or we’re not going to do it. And this movie has greatness to it, at least in theory. A lot of times, a lot of times the greatness is right there in front of the camera and it seems tilted for some reason and I am so fascinated by movies that on paper and seemingly they had all the right people in the room and it just doesn’t quite come together and that is as interesting to me as when movies make right turns and so that’s one of the reasons I love this movie too to me as a movie that does come together for some reason, you know? Where it makes a wrong turn is as interesting to me as when movies make right turns. And so that’s one of the reasons I love this movie too because it doesn’t quite work and yet I will probably watch it every other year for the rest of my life.
Joe: I have to say that this time around I was in a much better head space when I watched it I was kind of, I was ready for it. Where it’s terrible because it’s just like you’re talking about the pieces that just don’t fit and I love the parts that are great yeah there’s some really fun action scenes within this totally there’s a really interesting idea throughout and then the fact that it just hits so many of our tropes and all along the way, it was just so joyful to watch when there’s literally a scene where he says, give us the room. And if I could have jumped out of my seat and done a backflip, I would have. I love it, I was so unexpectedly perfect. But again, they have all the ingredients you’d want. Yeah. And it just kind of doesn’t all come. I was so unexpectedly perfect but again they have all the ingredients you’d want yeah and it just kind of doesn’t all come together it’s like a soup that just doesn’t finish at the end or whatever the right or a souffle that falls I don’t know whatever the that metaphor that I’m trying to grab for us but like it’s all right there all the ingredients are ready and it just kind of gets there and then it just kind of falls apart and then it’s got like three different endings Sebastian Stan is the bad guy but not the bad guy and then but he’d like do you think he’s been killed about five different times throughout the movie and he’s great in this and then but he’d like do you think he’s been killed about five different times throughout the movie and he’s great in this shout out to his Taylor on this show or on this movie he his suit is like he looks great just perfect in this movie so yeah you know there’s again lots of fun things there’s Hobbs and Shaw travel logic all over the place. You know, they magically find outfits to get into like some sort of fancy auction at one point after they are on the run from all the world and they, you have no idea how they got from Morocco to like Shanghai or Singapore wherever they are. You know, all of those things that they just don’t explain it. Again, it’s a great bad movie is what you know you’re watching at that moment.
Greg: Congealing, you know, like you say a soup and sometimes when you eat a soup and it hasn’t really spent much time cooking on the stove and it’s really like, wow, this really is just beans and tomatoes and whatever, you know. You taste all the different flavors but they don’t really congeal into an amazing soup or stew. That is kind of what this is and I cannot entirely blame the script because I feel like it’s from scene to scene, they’ll say stuff and I’ll think, huh, that’s a really interesting idea. I cannot entirely blame the script because I feel like it’s from scene to scene they’ll say stuff and I’ll think huh that’s a really interesting idea I wonder why it’s falling flat for me right now you know and that happens like I don’t know five or six times in this movie where I think oh that’s a good idea oh this is cool I like what they’re doing here And yet I don’t love the movie while it’s happening. And since I just am so sympathetic to Simon Kinberg, my first theory was, it’s the editors. And the first time I noticed it is in that scene when the five stars of this movie are sitting down and having a drink and talking about the first time they killed somebody because they’re all like international spies. Yeah. That scene should be funny. That scene should be dramatic. And it’s kind of neither. Of Blinkley staring for a minute before we cut to another person. It is really in my mind poorly edited. And there are so many scenes in this movie that could be legitimately funny if they were just edited a little bit tighter in my mind. And so it just made me think like it seems like this could be funny and a fun ragtag crew to hang out with, but it’s being edited seemingly lazily. So it’s edited by John Gilbert and Lee Smith. Like it seems like this could be funny and a fun you know ragtag crew to hang out with but it’s being edited seemingly lazily so it’s edited by John Gilbert and Lee Smith John Gilbert hasn’t done as much as Lee Smith Lee Smith in the room he did like a bunch of the dark night trilogy, he did Inception, he’s done some Peter Weir movies like Master and Commander, Fearless, The Truman Show, I mean these are legitimately amazing movies, Interstellar, Dunkirk, 1917. So there are real editors in the room, at least one real editor in the room that is like royalty, right? And it just made me think, you know, I never felt this way during those movies. So I think we have to put this squarely on Simon Kenberg. I think that it really is the director didn’t get what he wanted to get out of this movie. So I’ve been wrestling with that all week as we’ve been preparing for this episode and so I was like you know what I’ve never watched the X-Men Dark Phoenix movie because I just heard it was so horrible but I’m a this is a professional podcast I need to go back to do some research here so I watched the first half hour of that movie and it’s kind of solid. The first 30 minutes. The first 20-25 minutes. 25 minutes, 25 minutes, really well-minute, really well-minute, really well-minute, I don’t know what happened here. Maybe there were too many cooks in the kitchen. Maybe Simon Kenberg just wasn’t the right cook. But that’s so fascinating because it’s impossible to make a movie period. It’s nearly impossible to make a good one. I’ve been thinking a lot this week about Howard Hawks, that old film director from like the 40s. He has a saying that I don’t know why I haven’t brought it up yet on this show, but he has a saying that a good movie is three good scenes and no bad ones. Howard Hawks that old film director from like the 40s he has a saying that I don’t know why I haven’t brought it up yet on this show but he he has a saying that a good movie is three good scenes and no bad ones and I love that I think that’s a standard we should probably start kind of bringing up more often on this show I think they’re good ones so it passes that test to be on our show but there are some bad scenes that just kind of don’t hang together and you know don’t really make sense. Again on paper everything
Joe: Should be it should be perfect yeah but the pacing of the movie feel off the characters and their relationships feel a little off the first half of the movie almost feels too slow as they’re kind of building up, the last half feels a little too fast at different points. It doesn’t quite know where it’s going, like what is the final scene, who is the bad guy. So it kind of suffers from maybe too many ideas throughout it. Like the best movies are pretty simple in terms of, we need to stop this technology from falling into the wrong hand. So that’s like the premise of the movie. Sure. To get to that then there’s auctions on the dark web that they’re traveling to and then right like they never explained how a drug cartel kingpin in Colombia his son managed to create a piece of technology that can literally blow up planes in the air.
Greg: It is totally hand-waved. Like, sun with a laptop comes in the room and suddenly planes are dropping out of the sky for fun.
Joe: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then, like, the main bad guy that we kind of find out shows up at that scene. Yeah. Now, this is just based on my very rough knowledge of cartels, they have pretty strong security. Strong security, but they just let this group of people in with guns. Yeah. They don’t frisk them, they don’t do anything. They just welcome them in, and they’re there to buy the technology, and then the deal goes sideways, and then there are commandos in the jungle for… Coincidentally, they like spying on them. Yeah. And then one of the commandos ends up with the technology after a pretty nice action scene. You know a pretty nice action scene I’m not gonna lie that was a fun action scene in the open like you know yeah people getting shot yeah and then somehow that person who’s in Columbia ends up in Harris yeah sure I don’t know why and people have learned that he is trying to sell this just to support his family they make that very clear that he’s like a good guy And people have learned that he is trying to sell this just to support his family. They make that very clear that he’s like a good guy. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So you have all of that happen in the first like 20 minutes of this movie. Yeah. Then you throw in the relationship with Sebastian Stan and…
Greg: They’re like undercover trying to buy the drive in Paris, and then it’s… They have to pretend like they’re married and then are they a couple are they not they’re in a situation ship all of that she says you’re my best friend and I don’t want to mess this up and then they just immediately start making out yeah immediately mess it up immediately mess it up yeah oh my gosh there’s so many great bad things we have to talk about in in the first 20 minutes of this movie. The first thing is when I went back to watch this movie a second time this week and I was really trying to wrestle with where does it break bad for me and it is literally in that first scene. Rich guy shows up in Colombia to buy this drive that you know is basically the the whatever machine it can you can hack into everything and he decides he wants to buy it and then he shoots the guy who’s made it’s dad or no shoots the the guy who made his son right and then right after that I don’t understand who’s shooting who no yeah like the guy who arrived to buy the stuff seems like his men would be ready for this to happen and they would like shoot everybody in the room and they’d be able to steal this drive drive. But suddenly they start shooting and this is Simon Kinberg’s bad right here. We have no idea what’s happening almost immediately. And maybe he’s like, you know, this is just mayhem and they aren’t going to be able to get the drive. But we just cut to a guy by a window who starts shooting at them and then they’re cutting the scene like the people who were spying outside have already broken in our shooting everywhere and there’s like this crazy firefight happening. And then they just kind of walk in and they’re shooting as well. It’s just poorly staged action and I have no idea what’s happening. And that’s the very first thing that happens in this movie. And then that happens over and over and over again. So I think that might be one of the problems of this movie.
Joe: Yeah. So we have the bad guy who is there to buy it. Yeah. And everything goes sideways, as he’s just described. Not for as much money as then we are at the auction which happens in the beginning of like the third act of this movie right where he is trying to buy that drive then on the dark web for like a billion dollars yeah something great right right like maybe if they had just kept their heads about them and finish the deal at the beginning of the movie everything would have been fine and he would have saved some money but no We have to like have this dark web and You know it’s got to be in a blind spot or a closed network or whatever the you know the fun little technology one of my favorite things in these kinds of movies is yeah the lengths they go to to describe the technology a close network or whatever, you know, the fun little technology. One of my favorite things in these kinds of movies is, yeah, the lengths they go to to describe the technology so that you don’t question it, so it’s like the dark web and then we’ve got to get on a closed whatever and you know throw in quantum and you’re good to go basically what this is to me. Okay. Yeah, but that opening scene it does. It goes sideways and there’s no reason it should logically have gone sideways.
Greg: Do you ever see that movie Triple Frontier?
Joe: I don’t think so.
Greg: On Netflix, I feel like we should watch this movie sometime because it kind of does this right where we’re in Colombia or someplace like Colombia and there’s just crazy shootouts like this. But you can kind of tell what’s going on. And I feel like there’s a need for that establishing shot of an area where an action scene is about to happen. Catherine Bigelow is incredible at this, especially in the Herlocker. You know where everybody is and what’s happening and you’re tracking with it and you’re feeling the tension. And this movie, the tension just goes out of the room because you really don’t understand what’s happening. And they’re cutting like every point eight seconds,
Joe: You know? Yeah, I even say this in my real back-of-the-box the box. The action feels dated in kind of a nostalgic way, so I liked it, but it’s not like of the time of where we are with action movies right now.
Greg: Yeah, this movie came out in 2022. And the bummer is that Jessica Chastane, Diane Krueger, they’re doing some real stunts. They’re doing some real fist fights in this movie. They did some real choreography. And it’s ruined by the editing, I feel like. I really wish they had left some of these shots you know running so they could do a couple moves in one kind of John Wick style because they were doing that you know adding kinetic energy to the movie by shaking the camera and cutting so quickly really kind of bummed me out because Jessica Chastane is really doing like the Lord’s work jumping out of windows and stuff in this movie.
Joe: Have the ragtag crew, put them in a room, you know, restate the plot, okay, we’re in here, we’re going to do this, this and this. There’s a little of that when they get to wherever, Singapore, wherever the auction is. Yeah, Shanghai. That’s really the only time they do that as they’re kind of going into it. And then of course they get out of the limousines, where they found $1,000 dresses, right, and makeup, and makeup, and it’s. Shanghai, that’s really the only time they do that as they’re kind of going into it. And then of course they get out of the limousines where they found $1,000 dresses and makeup and…
Greg: It’s Hobbs and Shaw shopping logic.
Joe: Yeah, exactly. It’s so ridiculous. And those are the moments I totally forgive movies like this. Like you just kind of…
Greg: I mean that happens in a Reubition Impossible Impossible movie. Suddenly they have crazy suits and dresses and it’s like, yeah, that happens.
Joe: Yeah, of course. But like everything should work again, but it just is slightly off. Even their relationship between Jessica Chastain and Sebastian Stan never really feels, like they want us to feel some depth of emotion or like that. Would they, won’t they? Yep. You think he’s dead for a good chunk of the first part of the movie and he’s used as a recruiting tool, you know, when she goes, oh, really feels like they want us to feel some depth of emotion or like that would they won’t they yeah you think he’s dead for a good chunk of the first part of the movie and he’s used as a recruiting tool you know when she goes oh Nick’s dead or you know and and that’s the hook to get lupido of Newongo to like come along on the journey with them. It’s like we haven’t seen any of this relationship. We don’t know if it’s a good relationship or not, you know. So again, it just misses the mark a little bit. And a couple of things that happened in that opening scene, action in Paris, that I just adore in movies like this. So Jessica Chastine has a gun under a sundress. Like try to drop on Diane Krueger. Like, the amount of like she’s running, she shoots it, so that it almost like drops on her. In theory, she could have just shot Diane Krueger because she’s that good of a shot. Right. And then you have disappearing behind a bus twice in this movie, so things like that, again. That’s where it redeemed itself. It’ll throw those things in there and you’re like I’m back in baby, I’m back in baby, baby, I’m back in baby, I’m back in baby.
Greg: I love how there are so many scenes in this movie where everyone is shooting all the time and no one is hitting anything. It’s always just a wall next to our characters. But then there are scenes where people are shooting in every shot that they do is so perfect. You know, they’re shooting down lamps, like chandeliers or whatever, and like every single person in that one market scene. Jessica Chastain is just killing everybody she’s trying to kill with one shot. I’m sure that’s totally normal in France no big deal only normal yeah nobody screams nobody tries to tackle her yeah exactly let’s listen to what it sounds like when these characters talk to each other which is a lot of times the best parts and you know these are the scenes where while they’re talking I think oh that’s a good idea How can they don’t pursue that idea at all? But here is Jessica Chastain trying to bring in Lupita Nyong’o.
Clip: Hope you don’t mind to let myself in. Getting into the room isn’t the same as getting in. You didn’t ask the question. And you didn’t ask the question because you don’t want to know the answer. Correct. The package is… Here we go. A data key. The suite of tools is still out there and I need your help to track it down. I haven’t heard. I need to do this. They killed Nick.
Greg: So that’s all she needs to hear and she puts the phone down. But here’s where it goes from there. They need to sell the weapon a little bit. Let’s hear what the weapon is.
Clip: You know those, the old wars, cold war, war on terror. We knew who we were fighting, but now the enemy is invisible, like ghosts in a machine.
Greg: Joe, how often do you just give a solid simile like that while you’re describing things?
Joe: All the time. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, totally. 100% of the time. You do that like a similarly machine. Yeah. Okay, great. If they get their hands on this, they could control and destabilize entire city grids, nuclear facilities, world markets, anything, anything, anything from a plane, from a plane.
Clip: The kind of people will be gunning to get a hold of this and you know what they’ll do with it they can control any part of the world from simple reach of their keyboard everything you said on that stage was right. Everything except one thing.
Greg: We should say that the Peter and Yaga was just speaking at the Future Systems Convention. And Yaga was just speaking at the Future Systems Convention.
Joe: Is that what it was called? I think so, yeah.
Clip: The threat isn’t on the horizon, it’s here, right now. They get this, they start World War III. The war would be over before we could even fight back. I cannot do this without Yiddish. You’re the best in the world of what you do. You got to sell the Deiche. 100 percent.
Joe: I am playing this scene with the dead reckoning opening scene when they are in the director of National Intelligence office and they’re all like facing him talking about the entity. Yep. That is one of those and I don’t know if Christopher McQuarrie gets enough credit as a writer for that scene because it’s played for information. It’s played for like a little bit of a laugh because they’re kind of poking fun at itself of what kind of the Mission Impossible movies are, while also having a very similar conversation about a piece of technology that is that is doing the same thing and it’s awesome. You know, I have grown to love that movie. I just watched it again. Like a couple of weeks. You did? Awesome. Yeah. And it’s one of those movies that has grown on me every time I’ve watched it. Like, . . . . . . . . . . Five actors, six actors in a room together, setting the framework for the movie. It is so skillfully done, obviously you’re at the seventh Mission Impossible, it knows what it is. You’re kind of at the, almost at the conclusion of the series. Trista McCorry, Tom Cruise really know these characters what they’re doing, so it’s a little bit of a different scenario. To be able to pull off a scene where you’re looking, you’re kind of self-referential, while also interesting and funny, that’s a great scene, you know, if you talk about the three great scenes, that’s one of those scenes that I remember, and I think of it as like, it’s ridiculous and perfect in every way. And this scene is trying to emulate that in some sense, and it’s like, it’s like, huh, yeah, they killed Nick, and it’s, you know, yes, we get it, we’re selling the bad guy, we’re selling the bad guy, which, which, But it just feels silly in a sense of how they’re taking it so seriously and yet it feels so silly at the same time.
Greg: We haven’t mentioned that Penélope Cruz is in this movie and she is maybe the weakest link for me in this movie in this cast and she’s one of the best actresses alive on our planet and yeah she plays this therapist I think she’s supposed to be our way in you know we’re seeing this world for the first time the way she is and she’s scared to death but her character just doesn’t work in this movie and it’s so bizarre because she is so incredible I wish that her character had been a bit more I don’t know on board for the adventures you know it seemed like they were just trying to take care of her all the whole time she was a psychologist she could have like started getting in people’s heads a bit better she just plays this super sweet innocent person and it just kind of it takes you out of the movie a little bit yeah I totally agree
Joe: Like how they shoehorned her in that character like the the conceit is the agent that stole the technology which somehow magically ends up in France to sell it to you know whoever the CIA or the German intelligence to bring it back the Colombian intelligence the movie but it totally falls flat and they should have just made her a bad up Colombian spy that’s coming together on this and let that be the character instead of what it is you know because it does it totally doesn’t work like of all the
Greg: Characters that’s the one that works the least yeah I feel like for a lot of the movie I’m thinking we need to speed this along of the best of the movie so many things keep happening where I’m like wait what what’s happening here this wasn’t set up at all but we also have to talk about Diane Krueger who is a miracle in this movie and should be in every movie forever she is so good in this movie playing like a German you know spy And just, she could say nothing in this movie and I would be entirely on board with her sad spy story that she’s showing on her face the whole movie. She’s so good in this movie. Yeah, I think she’s the only one who knew what movie she was in. Yeah, it’s a good point. Jessica Chastine was like, you know, swinging for the fences. And Krueger was like, no, this is where we are right here. I feel like Lopino also, well, she has to say some hilarious things in this in this movie.
Joe: This systems are beyond anything I’ve ever seen next generation zero-day data sets parallel infinity-bit encryption systems I mean so this is poetic I’ll call it in
Greg: Next Generation Zero Day, something or other?
Joe: Amazing. Infinity something, encryption, bit, yeah.
Greg: I’m in. Yeah. She’s like the hacker. Yeah. We’re keeping our Odyssey theme alive. We watched the Martian last week because Matt Damon was coming on the Odyssey. The Odyssey is just destroying the box office in the last couple weeks. Lopine Yago plays two different characters in that movie.
Joe: Awesome.
Greg: Let’s do a little chapter of, um, what are you watching these days, Joe? What did you think of the Odyssey?
Joe: I have not seen it yet.
Greg: Yeah, I haven’t either. Okay, well that was what we’ve been watching lately.
Joe: What we haven’t been watching more.
Greg: But, I mean, when Peter Nyago is in a frame in this movie, it is infinitely interesting. Like, her face just carries the film the same way that Diane Cougarger does. This movie could be a remake of Bad Boys as far as I know and it stars the two of them and we’re good to go. I mean they are so good in this movie. I mean there’s really just cinematic royalty in this movie. Yeah, and I think that’s one of the reasons I’ll watch it every other year is just like well it’s interesting to see what Lopidi and Yongo was up to in 2022, you know?
Joe: Yeah, this movie reminds me as I think about it of, I have this really bad guilty pleasure of procedural CBS TV shows, so like FBI, those kind of shows. And to me, the plot and like the characters, And to me, the plot and like the characters could have been like a three episode crossover with, you know, the different Dick Wolf produced shows. Characters could have been like a three episode crossover with you know the different Dick Wolf produced yeah shows that are on which is like CIA and FBI and FBI whatever you know because the action scenes and those shows are so okay we’re seven minutes in now we need the red herring action scene where we go this way what’s happening so they have the people at headquarters that are you know walking around and it’s hilarious to watch I can almost watch them calling action as they get set and that’s kind of where this movie I had moments where I was like am I watching a three episode arc on CVS on you know a show that’s gonna be on for 200 years and you know yeah yeah so to me it’s it is sad because you have such potential again it’s like it’s all right there just grab it and something just it just it just misses and again the misses are just as glorious for me now as the as when it lands. Grab it just it just misses and again the misses are just as glorious for me now as
Greg: The as when it lands. Well we have we have to blame a little bit that they weren’t able to fix this movie probably once they realized what was wrong with it and that’s because they filmed this towards the end of 2019 and then re-shoots happened in mid-2020. And so, COVID is kind of to blame. And so there are scenes in this movie where the cast is standing together, but they’re actually standing in front of green screens wherever they were living at the time in different spots. And Bing Bing fan actually was in like jail when they were doing the reshoots of this movie because there was some tax thing that happened or something. In the reshoots of this movie and apparently I didn’t catch it but apparently when you watch it you can kind of see that they’re all lit differently as they’re standing next to each other because they’re standing in different places in front of a green screen so you know when they needed to go back and get a shot they just kind of couldn’t and man that must have been brutal when they realize that in 2020 and then this movie came out in January of 2022 and they’re like yeah it is just what we could get you know that must have been brutal for them. Couldn’t. And man that must have been brutal when they realized that in 2020 and then this movie came out in January of 2022 and they’re like yeah it is just well we could get you know that must have been brutal for them. Simon Kinberg did not do a press tour when this movie came out and failed the way he did with Dark Phoenix. He hasn’t really spoken about this movie very much since it came out that I could find. That’s interesting. I have this weird three year, I have this weird three-year, global pandemic. Did with Dark Phoenix. He hasn’t really spoken about this movie very much since it came out that I could find.
Joe: That’s interesting. I have this weird three-year global pandemic and somehow I, you know, you forget how it just drastically affected how movies were being made, if at all during that time. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That’s interesting. Now we want to watch it again to try to find that scene.
Greg: Have put in a different order and I feel like the scenes would have made more sense. Obviously they can’t go back and get establishing shots when they can’t have like 20 people near each other in a shot. So I kind of wonder if that ruined some of the, if they didn’t get those shots and then they realized, oh we can’t do it because people are not gathering in places right now. So yeah, it’s interesting. I love it, I love this movie. Yeah. In this movie are just clearly shot by the second unit and they’re just they’re just
Joe: Amazing you know that was fun also to see because there are some especially the Diane Kruger when they’re and Jessica Chassing when they aren’t on the same team yet. Yeah, yeah, they have a great fight scene through the market, you know, when they have the crane. And there’s some moments where it is so clearly stunt doubles, hiding their face with, you know, a hoodie on or a bad wig. Yeah, the wig department on this really went all out as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think Diane Krueger and Jessica Jase both were like two or three wigs at different points that are just. Amazing. They’re not good. But it’s awesome. But that’s probably my favorite action scene is when they’re in the market and just there’s so many things happening. Yeah, it’s probably the one that lands the best for me. Yeah, it’s really good. Yeah, it’s just, there are moments. It does. I do, I feel like if they have this good of editors, then this is probably the best of what they could ring out of what they had. Yeah, I guess so. Which is saying something. Having said that, I love that we watched the 355. Yeah, me too.
Greg: Watch this movie you’re like why is this movie called the three five?
Joe: Yeah. Oh thank God you have to wait till the final scene of the movie to find out.
Greg: Which is just what on earth? What were they doing? It is not a fun reveal at that point. It’s just exhausting at that point.
Joe: Yeah. Yeah, because especially because at that point you’ve had three different moments where you think you’re at the end of the movie. And it’s like, oh, there’s one more scene. Oh, no, there we’re still going. And so by that point, you’re just like, just put us out of our misery.
Greg: Yeah, we’re two hours in. The movie actually kind of resolves like 50 minutes in, you think it’s over? There’s a moment where it’s like, wait, is it over and I just, you know, that da da da da da da da. You feel like the credits are in a roll, you know?
Joe: Yeah. And then it happens again like 45 minutes later. Yeah, it keeps happening in this movie. Yeah. Yeah, again, so they at that 40 minutes, us the rooms and boss of the CIA. But he ended up being a bad guy right? Yeah he ends up being a bad guy but also it’s like the most powerful technology in the world and just like just hands it to one guy by himself in the CIA office somewhere in Germany or France or wherever they are. Like huh I might want a little bit more security by himself in the CIA office somewhere in Germany or France or wherever they are. Like, huh, I might want a little bit more security around for this. Totally, totally. Yeah. Then the Chinese get involved, which we find out are good. And then they take it, but then I’m not quite sure why they’re trying to auction it off on the dark web, because that sets off the next part of like the second act of the movie.
Greg: Because we need the auction, we need the Mission Impossible, dress up auction, and it’s pretty fun. Well, then I’m back in. Yeah. But they keep going into these places where they’re just dudes. And it feels like this movie is trying to comment on women where we would typically see dudes. There’s like an all-dude bathhouse that somebody walks into, and there’s really nothing happens there, except, you know, there’s just a place that she’s not supposed to be. Same thing with this auction, you know, there’s just all this auction, you know, there’s just all this auction, there’s just all these rich, there’s just all these rich, you know, you know, you know, you know, there’s just all these rich, there’s just all these rich, you’re just all these rich, But they speak to this a bit, which I found really fun, you know, like we kind of get to go behind closed doors and hear what five lady spies would say about the Dude Fest that is these kinds of movies. And so let’s listen to a couple of those scenes.
Clip: I’m sorry that you’re here. This is my fault. He brought all of this in your life. No you didn’t. He did. You don’t have to apologize for him, We think everything is our fault. You didn’t bring this into my life. All you did was trust the wrong guy. It’s not your fault. That’s what therapists always say. I’m not a therapist right now.
Greg: Really lands that moment. Yeah. And she’s like loading a gun at that same time. I think so. I think so, yeah. And then here’s Jessica Chastain and Lepita Nyago talking.
Clip: He hasn’t been sleeping well without me. That’s real love, huh? That’s real life, Mace. James Bond never has to deal with real life. James Bond always ends up alone.
Greg: It’s a solid conversation. Yeah. Simon Kinberg’s thing that he co-wrote the script for this, and his thing was, I really want it to be that these are real people with real relationships, because we never see that we don’t know who Ethan Hunt is. Attention. But what if these people really did have connections with people outside? I thought that was interesting. I thought that’s a good thing for a movie.
Joe: Yeah, it deserved better in the presentation of it, but I’d say, yeah, that’s an interesting idea.
Greg: Well, Joe, as we’re talking about this, I’m, I’ll be honest, I’m a wee bit worried that there are some people out there who may not have seen the January 7th 2022 release of the movie the 355.
Joe: Yeah weird.
Greg: I know that’s that seems pretty bizarre but just in the off chance you know we have a vast audience across the entire planet so there’s a chance they haven’t gotten to it it’s on Netflix right now no big deal you have no excuses so let’s pretend Hold on, can I say something, can we have a little sidebar for a second?
Joe: Oh, absolutely. I love a sidebar.
Greg: I’m a little bit worried that my description of the back of the box segment of our show has been getting
Joe: A little bit too long. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, I’m going to make this as short as I can. No, I just want to promise the listener, I’ve noticed it, I’ve noticed it, I know you’ve noticed it, you’ve noticed it, it, it, it, it, it, it.
Greg: Make it as long as possible. No no no no no I’m going to make this as short as I can so I just want to promise the listener I’ve noticed it I know you’ve noticed it it’s time for this to get shorter. So here we go. Joe, I’m a little bit worried that there might be some people out there who have not seen the 355. So I think it’s time for us to pretend like we are walking through the halls of an old school video store. I’m talking about like, what was the video store that you went to growing up?
Joe: I mean blockbusters are when the jumps to mind but I feel like there were a lot of independent ones. I remember when way back in the 80s when you rented the VCR at the same time there was the data and the VHS like distinction like down the middle of the store. Totally. And you take it home and my dad would spend simple so I think yeah let’s let’s go way back to the 80s time when we’re looking at the back of the box
Greg: I think Iris was called movie land which is pretty much the best name for a place possible yeah all right so let’s pretend you’re going through the halls of movie land and you’re like you know what I don’t want a horror movie I don’t want a comedy Yeah I’m gonna go straight to action and straight to action and adventure and see what’s going on over there. Actually, hold up, this is a brand new movie, so I’m going to go to new releases, obviously. Now there are a lot of VHS tapes, there are a lot of DVDs, Blu-rays, on the shelves and as you’re walking down the shelves you’re trying to see what is actually something you can, you know, rent. So I want to keep this quick. So you’re going through all the hallways. What section are you in?
Joe: Action and adventure, new release, action adventure, obviously.
Greg: The action adventure, I mean obviously the weird thing about the new releases section was, it was just all of the movies. There was no sections in the new releases, it was just new releases. But you would know that it was in because the actual physical tape or DVD was behind the foe box. So you could see the poster art. And then you can just flip this box right over and see like a synopsis. And also if you’re a Greg Swinehart, little Greg Swinehart is reading the liner notes, reading who produced it, who wrote it, who directed it, that’s where this all came from for me.
Joe: Bored him in a video store. But anyways, I want to cut to the chase here. Let’s pretend you’re walking down the hall. Yes.
Greg: Boredom in a video store. But anyways, I want to cut to the chase here. Let’s pretend you’re walking down the hallways. Yes. Of movie land, Concord, California, obviously. Obviously. It might have been Walnut Creek. I don’t know, I lived right on the border. And you’re flipping these boxes over. What’s this? It’s a movie called The 355. It has five of the best actresses on the planet Earth. This seems like it might be pretty good. You pick up that box. I want to read the back of that box to find out if it’s a movie I should rent tonight at Movie Land. That’s right it’s time for the back of the box
Joe: There is a mad scramble to secure technology which can hack any system While all of the world’s intelligence agencies are converging, so are those who would use this technology for harm. Her only hope is a ragtag crew of spies thrown together out of happenstance and a shared sense of duty to do the right thing. As the conspiracy is unraveled, who will be left standing and who can be believed. This movie effortlessly blends action and suspense, while leave you guessing until the final scene.
Greg: Wow, it seems a lot more mysterious than I felt while I was watching it, but I think that does get me in the door. I think I do rent it.
Joe: Okay, sweet.
Greg: Yeah. Oh, by the way, Movieland also had like a box of movie posters that you could just take. Yeah, and so I decorated my whole room, my whole childhood, I’m not even joking, I’m pretty sure this is why I’m a graphic designer. It’s because I just sat there and looked at movie posters my whole childhood. And so I decorated my whole room, my whole childhood. I grabbed movie posters from, and I’m not even joking, I’m pretty sure this is why I’m a graphic designer. It’s because I just sat there and looked at movie posters my whole childhood. Right. I think you also need some artistic talent because I had movie posters growing up as well and I can’t draw for anything. Everything looks like a standby meme poster. And that was a quote about Cherry Pez. Yeah, yeah, exactly. All right. All right, well, I think I rent it, but that’s, but that’s, but that’s, but that’s obviously, but that’s obviously, And that’s not what we’re here for. I don’t think anybody that press play on this episode is in it just for the marketing. They want the honest true raw. Joe Sky Tucker back of the box. What did you really think of this movie and what would it say on the back of the box?
Joe: This movie brought everything to the table except a writer. This movie is so trope filled, it seems that only AI could have written it. The cast is great. Scenes feel a little dated but in a nostalgic manner. Sadly, we have offensively boring dialogue, which somehow becomes a hilarious character in and of itself. The cast and crew deserve better. But it is an enjoyable romp into what could have been.
Greg: Love it. Okay. All right, Joe, I have great news and bad news. In January. And a January movie for us can only mean good things because the movie doesn’t have to be all great. There could be some bad. So January 7th, 2022, this movie came out. The budget for this movie, actually, let’s play, can Joe guess the budget? What do you think the budget was on this movie?
Joe: In 2019, got a strong cast. I’m going to go 110 million. Wow, wow, 75. Wow, way off, okay. Yeah, they got it for a Made in 2019. Yep. Got a strong cast. I’m gonna go 110 million. Wow, 75. Wow, way off, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they got it. Yeah, they got it for a first, we’re for a first.
Greg: Steel. Unfortunately, the domestic box office for this movie total was 14.5 million dollars.
Joe: Ouch.
Greg: And the international was 13 million dollars. So this made just shy of 28 million worldwide.
Joe: Ooh. So that’s a little rough. Leaving about 50 million on the table that they, and they needed to double that. Yeah, so they’re in trouble. And obviously streaming is in full effect right now, so we don’t quite know. So needless to say, it didn’t make enough money to engender anyone saying, let’s make another three five, let’s make three five six basically. That’s not happening. That’s awesome. Yeah.
Greg: Okay, well let’s get to what the critics said about this movie. What do you think the rotten tomato score is for critics for the 355 Joe?
Joe: I can’t go I’m going to go 43 24. Wow.
Greg: Maybe our lowest it might be rotten tomatoes score movie we’ve ever done. Now we have over 1,000 verified ratings from audience members on Hot Tomatoes, which shows that this movie Super popular does not have much traction. But of those 1,000 people or more, what do you think the popcorn meter is? What do you think the audience score is on Rotten Tomatoes Joe?
Joe: I’ll keep my original answer. I’ll go 43. 86. What?
Greg: Yeah, that’s why this movie is perfect for us, because these are, these are,
Joe: So you look at these numbers a lot more than I do. What, where do you like to see in general, like when you trust a popcorn meter and a rotten tomatoes, like how many do you like to see before you kind of trust it where it doesn’t feel like it could be swayed by bots or those sorts.
Greg: Yeah, yeah, I want to see many tens of thousands, to be honest, so this isn’t a very good sample size. Man, I was looking at the odd at the Odyssey audience audience scores, I was looking at the Odyssey audience scores on Rotten Tomatoes on Friday night and the Odyssey is just like everyone loves the Odyssey right yeah and it was just horrible review and a lot of them weren’t verified and it was honestly like there’s an AI there’s an AI bought out there writing these right now that just has to be. There’s no way the last like 30 reviews on Rotten Tomatoes by audience members were half a star, you know? Right, yeah. So it’s a loose science. We’ll just say that. Says a guy who worked for data science.
Joe: Right. It’s close enough.
Greg: Some of the funniest things I’ve heard said about data science were in the marketing department of my company. Of my company. They’re like, well this is how it works and if a data scientist is in the meeting they’re like that’s not how it works at all. Anyways, that’s awesome. Well we like to start reading some reviews from the Seattle Times. The Seattle Times did not give this to Soren or Moira, unfortunately. They ran an associated press review written by Lindsay Bar and she writes for the New York Times now actually. To Soren or Moira unfortunately. They ran an Associated Press review written by Lindsay Barr and she writes for the New York Times now actually. All right good for you Lindsay. So in the Seattle Times we got this review mostly the 3.55 succeeds where others have come up short because it put the movie and the story first, not the message. Two and a half out of four stars. I agree with the number. I don’t know if I agree with the words. Okay, okay. Let’s get straight to Kevin Marr, one of my favorite people to read. He writes for the Times UK, he is notoriously hot or cold about movies. He said, five thrillingly charismatic performance, a giddy central premise, performance, a giddy central premise, and a single memorable one-liner can’t save this hodge-podge production from its ruinous inadequacies, one out of five.
Joe: Wow. It feels a little harsh, but hodge, whatever could be a name for this show, so I’ll take it.
Greg: All right, we did it. We found our first potential name for this show. Should have been hodgepodge production and ruinous inadequacies. All right, let’s get to some more reviews. Screen International says, despite the Keep It Open ending, it seems clear that Chastain has an idea and not a franchise that Simon Kinburg works better as a producer than a director. Oh I agree with all of that. Peter Travers says, what a bummer. To kick off 2022 at the movies with a lame gender flipped mission impossible, Chastain and her team of women warriors look ready to rip, so it’s a shame that Director Simon Kinberg traps them in an empty soulless mess.
Joe: Wow. That’s, I mean, that’s… I feel like it’s a little harsh. Yeah.
Greg: But also, this, you know, maybe this is an episode from the podcast, Empty Soulless Mess.
Joe: Yeah, yeah, I like it.
Greg: All right, Stephanie Zakorek in Time Magazine in 2022, Rode, rarely has a spy thriller so much resembled a pile of ironing I don’t get it but I love that a pile of clothes that she needs to iron is in the loop. All right, Allison Wilmore in New York magazine and Vulture says, its dullness somehow feels worse than grand failure. As though its aims were only to prove that a bunch of the most famous women on earth can come together to make an action film just as uninspired and boring as men can.
Joe: Okay, that is a great review.
Greg: All right, Joanna Schneller of Globe and Mail wrote, I was pleasantly entertained watching these chicks wheel around and elbow men in the throat, especially Krueger, who obviously could kill me without breaking a sweat. Yeah, Mike LaSalle, we’ve read a lot of really good reviews by it with Mike LaSalle in the San Francisco Chronicle. In 2022 he wrote, the 355 is a guilty pleasure, only don’t waste your time feeling guilty. Two and a half out of four stars.
Joe: I was trying to think if there’s a name in there. That might be a stretch, but, eh, a guilty. That’s how I want people to feel about this podcast, so I’ll allow it.
Greg: And Varieties said mostly holds your attention. I think it. Periodically revs the senses and gives its actors just enough to work with to put a basic feminine spin on the genre. The Observer UK says Diane Kruger slapping Jessica Chastain across the face with a frozen fish should be funny. Two out of five stars.
Joe: Oh, it’s awesome.
Greg: All right, just two more here. We’ve got the independent UK saying, perhaps that’s true equality in action. An international diverse cast of actresses can now make a mediocre spy film, two out of five stars.
Joe: Mm-hmm.
Greg: And one of my favorite reviewers, Amy Nicholson, writing for the New York Times, says, it’s flat-footed even when the set-ups year to be playful, like a pursuit that detours into a men-only bathhouse or a surreal moment in an undercover sequence when Chastane rips off her red wig disguised to reveal her own identical red hair, C minus.
Joe: Yeah. Yeah. Those are, I mean, I can’t argue with any of those reviews. They are dead on for the most part. It’s pretty rough. Alcohol, a beer, wine, a smoothie, coffee, whatever you want. You know, so we start with our stock drinking games, which this opens with now what I’m calling the Greg’s Winehart special, silent helicopter, the first shot. We have trees and then a helicopter just out of nowhere. The greatest, the greatest. Never again do we see this helicopter? And the helicopters behind them. No, don’t worry about it. Don’t you dare worry about it. Yeah. Push in and enhance, oh, all over this movie. Yeah. Facial recognition software all over it. We might have to add like a special trope for facial recognition and all of that. We’ll get to that. We don’t really have a slow motion look in the chaos, but we do have an explosion almost two minutes ago. CGI there are moments when you can tell they’re in front of green screens. Yeah. Great’s bad shots are everywhere. Everyone is right
Greg: There. How are they missing them? Yeah. That’s a great bad shot.
Joe: Exactly. Yeah. Streets are inexplicably wet, absolutely. Oh my God, so often. They look great.
Greg: So great. I can’t argue with it.
Joe: Yep. Literally says, give us the room. Oh my God. Like, great. The joy that I felt in that moment is indescribable.
Greg: You know what’s amazing? Yeah. . . I’ve started doing this in real life just to see what happens and it is I’m just like you say it they kind of look at your and you just go I’ve always wanted to say that never mind yeah everyone gets it everyone gets it yeah awesome and we have no interpol which is a missed
Joe: Opportunity. You would think in a movie like this Interpol would make some sort of appearance. Yeah. And then our last drinking game, which we is probably the one that we have the least, but is one of my favorites. We have two different cell phone smashes in this movie. And it was great. The last one, I think it was Jessica Chastane, with her high heel, smashing through. Yeah. It was so good. And Sebastian Stan does it earlier in the film. So those are our stock drinking games. Pace yourselves with them because there’s a lot in there for anyone who’s got those, maybe pass them along to the person left. However you want to divvy them up, go do your thing. But now my favorite part, Craig Swinehart, what is your first bespoke drinking game for the 355?
Greg: Anytime we have a montage of preparing weapons, take a drink.
Joe: That’s so good. I might also need to be a trope. You know? Because there’s so many. I have every time people are actually shot and they kind of like a bad 80s movie, like jerk and fly around and like make a big, and then they just like get shot and then kind of just collapse and you never see them again.
Greg: Yeah, drink. Anytime someone is punched and just falls on the ground and is no longer a problem in the scene. Pick a drink. Awesome.
Joe: Any time they’re in a chase and they push people down to get out of the way.
Greg: Yeah, 100%. Anytime the camera is over something, any time we’re having like a straight down to earth shot, which happens a few times in this movie, take a drink. Awesome.
Joe: I also have one, but it’s more of the swooping camera where they like are spinning around and like, you know, they have the scene where they’re, they’re like the hero shot where they’re spinning around them like the Michael Day there’s some scenes with like yeah with Sebastian Stan and them where like the camera and and then like Lopino newongo the camera is just constantly moving around them and I’m not quite sure why
Greg: But I’m here for it. Yeah was there a scene where they’re eating dinner and it’s basically the opening of that show Roseanne? Yes. Or the Connors. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah it’s someone needs to take that scene and put like the opening music to a sitcom on it. That’s awesome. Maybe we should do that and put it on great bad movies that come we might need to by we I mean you obviously I’m gonna need five versions of that on my desk by 5 p.m. Five by five okay okay done all right anytime someone’s head hits an object like a table or a sink or a counter or a wall that’s so good
Joe: That happens so much in this movie. Past yourself, drink water in between every other. I have any time Jessica Chastain wrap something around someone’s neck in a fight, take a drink. It’s great. Anytime a bad guy says, how very disappointing, take a drink.
Greg: Amazing, I have, any time someone calls home, take a drink. Wow, that’s solid, that’s really good. Guy says, how very disappointing.
Joe: Take a drink. Amazing. I have, any time someone calls home, take a drink.
Greg: Wow, that’s solid. That’s really good. Anytime someone says you’re good at everything except taking orders.
Joe: Oh my God, that almost should be a trope, because I feel like that’s like every lieutenant in like an 80s, you know, buddy cop film, says something like that. To the wrapping something around someone’s neck. Anytime Jessica Chastain, I think Diane Kruger does this too, grabs the legs of someone while fighting and trips them. Take a drink.
Greg: It’s a good move. Take a drink any time someone says the device. Take a drink.
Joe: Yes, absolutely. That’s awesome. Anytime someone’s wearing a wig, take a drink. It’s great. Or takes it off, a drink, ala,
Greg: Take a drink any time a plane just suddenly falls out of the sky and crashes.
Joe: Awesome. Anytime Jessica Chastain and Sebastian Stan Kiss, take a drink. Oh, yeah.
Greg: Anytime a scene takes place in a CIA safe house, take a drink.
Joe: I feel like that was a COVID influence of, oh, we need some set pieces, so we need a place to be, a place to be so that they can kind of we can film each person not in the same at the same time so and
Greg: It has the double win of making you want to watch safe house with Ryan Reynolds
Joe: And Denzel Washington which is a classic always yes we may need to watch we need that to be on our list soon because that’s hundred percent so good yeah every time you think Sebastian Stan is dead take a drink
Greg: Anytime someone jumps from a roof to a roof or a container to a container.
Joe: What do you prefer, Joe?
Greg: Do you prefer jumping roofs or containers?
Joe: I think roofs. Containers, it seems a little, you know, you don’t have holds and you almost fall down, like she needed a net on this one. Yeah, you know, yeah. I have any time Jessica Chastin’s character is called a tough guy, take a drink.
Greg: Oh, that’s great. I’m out. What else do you have?
Joe: Oh yeah, I’m out too. That was perfect.
Greg: Nailed it. All right, Joe, that’s all well and good. But you know what, there are things in a movie that make it add up to a great bad movie. And those things are often listed in Raditat fashion by you, Joe Skai Tucker. So that’s right, it’s time for Joe’s trope Lightning Round, aka Signs You might be watching a great bad movie.
Joe: Movie. Lightning round may feel little less descriptive because there are so many tropes here. I will also note that I have added one two three four five new tropes based on this movie alone. Wow. So we have a new trope of a shot through a sniper scope. They have that in the opening scene like the helicopter there is not again a sniper rifle used or a sniper no one is shot with a sniper rifle we just have one shot through the sniper scope is awesome a shot of multiple passports of someone like going through their bag and picking out their identity all uh… Every movie we’ve ever seen basically yeah new trope eating takeout out of a Chinese restaurant box new trope Every movie we’ve ever seen basically. It’s a new trope. Eating takeout out of a Chinese restaurant box, new trope. Throwing things over while on a chase on foot, so like knocking down, you know, postcard holders and whatever, and tables. Love it. And then I finally added Hobbs and Shaw travel logic to our troves because we just need that. So those are the new tropes. Now we can get to the lightning round. We have a room full of guns. We have beautiful women who can get in anywhere. We have sound effects on things that don’t make sound. So hacking in this movie and makes the sound. The name of the movie is said by a character. We have a ragtag crew finding the keys to the visor under the visor kind of trope. The person who is about to be killed. Be killed by Sebastian Stan and then that person is shot by the therapist in that scene. Penélope Cruz. Color filters on third world countries, all over the place where we have revenge is the driver of the protagonist, sort of out of retirement. We have a friend and family who dies early in the film, if you kind of believe Sebastian Stan is dead early in the film. Duffel bag full of money, amazing recovery time, medical care from a loved one, partner and, you know, stapling themselves up. Clothes that fit perfectly, that they just find randomly, downloading a file under pressure, checking if a gun is loaded, call trace, timer, and one of my personal favorites that happens twice, disappearing behind a bus. In fact, the last scene, last shot of the movie, is Jessica Chastain’s character, disappearing behind a bus. And we have the helicopter so we have it opens and closes with two of our favorite shots ever in a movie it just you know bookmarked in the middle that perfect it’s yeah
Greg: How can you go wrong strong start and strong finish who cares what’s in between exactly it’s great all around all right Joe as we’ve been talking about this movie for much longer than I anticipated we would talk about the three five the most sensitive issues. There’s some elephants in the room that we have been avoiding in this conversation. I’ve had it! It’s time for important questions. Let’s get to it. Did this movie hold up in 2022?
Joe: Eh, sort of. And does it hold up now? I, in a way it holds up a little bit better to me? Yeah. Yeah. Because I am coming to your side of things where it’s like, if you said, let’s watch this movie, I’d be like, I will be there in two seconds let’s go. Yeah yeah.
Greg: Joe how hard did they sell the bad guy in this movie?
Joe: I mean who is the bad guy besides they’d really sell the technology we put you played that clip earlier of like what it is but yeah they struggle to kind of land on who the actual bad guy is I guess Sebastian Stan but they don’t really besides the technology they don’t sell the bad guy very much at all in this. Yeah. The McGuffin, I guess. Yeah. Okay. Joe, does this movie deserve a sequel? Deserve, probably not. What I watch a sequel? Yeah. Yeah, 100%.
Greg: I think that they make a sequel to this eventually. Yeah. It’s like how practical magic is getting a sequel. It’s like 20 years from now, everybody comes back together. Yeah. This became a cult favorite on Netflix. Okay, but does it deserve a prequel? This is one I would allow a prequel.
Joe: Prequel. This is one I would allow where I would just like show me their early careers, any one of them, pick any one of the five. Yeah, and let’s do a one-off for them. Yeah, so I would totally find with a prequel on this.
Greg: So individual prequels for all five of them?
Joe: Yeah, culminating in the 355. How do we divide that by, I’m trying to, you know, divide it all of it by five and then each movie is…
Greg: Listen, I was on the impression there would be zero math in this episode.
Joe: Yeah, sorry.
Greg: Okay, well, I feel like you’re still dancing around the real answer here. There is the uncomfortable truth is that we need to go all the way back to the times of George Washington and see a prequel about the actual Agent 355 that we learned about in like the final scene of this movie?
Joe: Yep, I’m a hundred percent in on that, yes. That is the movie we need.
Greg: I just assume that everyone who listened to this has watched this movie 20 times, but in the off chance that they haven’t. Can you explain to our audience who Agent 355 was?
Joe: It was, I’m assuming the first female spy of the Revolutionary War or the Civil War, first women spy, and they didn’t know her name, and they didn’t know her name and so they just named her agent 355.
Greg: So apparently George Washington would write letters with code and a 355 was a female agent. She’s only mentioned once in his letters and he was going to attend a party with 355 and we don’t exactly know who that was. Once in his letters and he was going to attend a party with 355 and we don’t exactly know who that was. But there’s actually a prequel series that was on AMC in like 2014 I want to say, which actually started like Jamie Bell and Heather Lind and it was on AMC so it’s called Turn Washington’s spies and so we get to see who Agent 355 was and that so we kind of already have a prequel AMC show probably was pretty good if it was on AMC back then but I think it’s time to get this off the small screen it’s time for us to make a real movie about Agent
Joe: 3.55.5. Yeah, why isn’t that the movie they made? I mean, Jessica Chastane is Agent 355 in the Revolutionary War. I mean, I’m, I watched that every single time.
Greg: Yeah, yeah. When she announces why it’s called the 355 at the end of this movie, I’ve always, I’ve forgotten that it’s called the 355 until the end and then I’m angry that it’s called the 355 every time the credits are all in this movie. Yeah, because why do we just learn that at the end? That’s a weird reveal in the final moments, just conversationally. It just is not hanging together very well. No, I mean there could have been a scene
Joe: In a museum earlier in the film where they’re meeting and there’s a dead drop and like they could have dropped some breadcrums along the way. 100% yeah.
Greg: There should have been a plot point not just a hey you know how this movie is called the three-five Do you want to know why?
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: All right, Joe, next important question, how can this movie be fixed, aka who should be in the remake?
Joe: I keep the cast. Yeah. I want a different writer and I, you mentioned it earlier, I would watch anything Catherine Bigelow Drex. Yeah. She has this incredible ability to build tension. I don’t even understand how she does it. It, you know, when we watched House of Dynamite, the opening scene of that is just someone calling home and how it shot, I don’t fully understand it, but like, instantly I’m in, I know I’m in good hands with a good director and I can feel the tension in every scene and she is the master of that. Like if she’s in control of this movie, it’s a different movie and it’s a tight spy thriller start to finish. So that’s who I would want. How do you fix this movie or who do you want in the remake?
Greg: I think I recast everybody. I think they learned some things and I want them to have another time up to bat. I probably changed Penélope Cruz’s character. Yeah. Unless she was super happy with it and feels like she can improve upon it, I would trust her judgment on that. I definitely wouldn’t have Simon Kinberg directed. I don’t think he is ready. I think in a couple movies he will be ready but I think we give it to Gina Prince Bythewood and she makes it it for Netflix with a huge budget with that old guard money you know mhm and I think she does a better job making this movie she loves James Bond movies you know she loves James Bond movies she would love a crack at this I just don’t understand why it was Simon Kinberg the more I think of it. So that’s how I fixed this movie. Everybody gets the same shot. I think there’s probably another pass on the script. There were lots of seemingly important things that were not really set up like how they were getting ready to break into that hotel room in Shanghai from like above and below. They were going to like blow and they weren’t quite ready and so then they were rushing them and it was like well hold on what’s this whole plan, what’s this whole plan, what are we’re doing. It was just like, there were no stakes because we had no idea what they were up to. So I think we give that a rewrite. I can keep going. But I think that’s it. Those are the big. Okay. Those are the main things. Next important question, Joe, why is there romance in this movie?
Joe: Well, there’s not a lot of romance in this movie, which is, to its credit. I think it’s to show the dysfunction of Sebastian, relationship where no one can kind of commit, maybe you should just walk away, you know, instead of trying to make it work, because he’s all, he’s trying to make it work, she’s kind of in, she’s kind of out, you know, so maybe it’s a it’s a parable for today’s, you know, toxic relationships that we’re in, you know, that’s probably way more depth than this movie deserves, but there’s not a lot of romance. But there’s not a lot of romance, but there’s not a lot of romance. Relationships that we’re in. You know, that’s probably way more depth than this movie deserves, but there’s not a lot of romance, so I can’t fault this movie for that.
Greg: I think this movie has the wrong amount of romance. I think it either has more, we either believe their relationship deeper, or it’s just out, and there’s no romance at all in this movie. I could go either way, but it is the wrong amount. Yeah. I think it’s either, you see that they have a deep, it’s just out and there’s no romance at all in this movie I could go either way but it is the wrong amount.
Joe: Yeah. Yeah I think it’s either you see that they have a deep love for each other and then there’s a break as he’s like chooses bad, you know evil over good or there’s a tension between them that they never realize that just is like drives their characters you know so there’s like a will they won’t they but they don’t that drives the tension but keep it subtext whatever it was they picked the wrong lane on this one for sure so
Greg: All right Joe are we bad people for loving this movie do you love this movie you probably don’t love this movie I don’t love this movie I don’t love this movie I don’t love this
Joe: I don’t love this movie but I don’t feel like a bad person I wouldn’t feel like a bad person for loving this movie I like this movie yeah I enjoyed watching this movie and I don’t I don’t have the same sense of guilt I do about some of the movies we watch so let me let me rephrase this question because I feel like it’s it’ll be helpful if you meet someone at a party
Greg: So let me rephrase this question because I feel like it’s it’ll be helpful if you meet someone at a party and they say my favorite movie is the 355 is that the best thing a person could say to you at a party it might be a totally that makes you an awesome person if you love this movie in my mind yeah because then I’m like have I got a podcast for you
Joe: This movie. Oh, I spent so much time. I even looked back at what I had for the last time. I will reveal that also in our bonus episode of what my album was. What I came to was I wanted an album that was kind of had good people attached to it. Yeah. But what I felt like was kind of trite writing and what I came to is this is Blink 182 and I’m out of the state. Yeah, yeah. They’re kind of big popular album. I don’t like Blink 182. I don’t dislike them as people or as a band. I just it doesn’t resonate with me it’s like that poppy punk it’s not my thing I’m not a punk person but pop punk is even worse to me and just like the triteness of the lyrics to me and the triteness of the of the writing in this or where the the parallels but what about you what album is this for you that’s a great album
Greg: Except when it isn’t and that’s also how I would describe the 355 yeah so I wanted to do like an all female supergroup for this because that’s kind of what this movie is Unfortunately, like this movie isn’t entirely successful and the only all female supergroup that I wanted to mention was like amazingly successful. So there isn’t really like a one to one here. So let’s pretend that the 355 was the most successful movie of all time and I’m going to say that this is the High Women which is the super group with Brandy Carlisle, Natalie Hemby, Marion Morris, Amanda Shires. Oh, wow. And it’s like, what if there was an all-women super group, country super group that was the compliment to the highwayman, which was Johnny Cash, Wayland Jennings, Chris, Christopherson, and Willie Nelson? Right. And they’re amazing. I feel like you could listen to any highwayman song and it’ll be the best day of your life. So I feel like that’s what the three-five was going for and didn’t succeed. I feel like that’s what the highway women went for and hit it out of the park. So this is the highway women. To any high women song and it’ll be the best day of your life. So I feel like that’s what the 355 was going for and didn’t succeed. I feel like that’s what the high women went for and hit it out of the park. So this is the high women. Awesome, awesome.
Joe: It’s giving this movie something to aspire to be. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. All right, Joe, it is finally, it is finally come down to this. It’s time for us to rate this movie. We have our scale, great bad movie, great bad movie, great bad movie, great bad movie.
Greg: To be. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. All right, Joe, it is finally, finally come down to this. It’s time for us to rate this movie. We have our scale, great bad movie, good bad movie, okay bad movie, bad movie, bad movie, and awful bad movie. How do you rate 2022s 35?
Joe: I have a strong affection for this movie. I can’t really rate it higher than an okay bad movie, movie in my mind, it’s right on the edge of Good Bad Movie and OK. Yeah. So it’s really close. I can’t push it over that edge at this moment. I want to, but I just, I can’t, but it’s, it’s really close. I wouldn’t fault anyone for their love of this, but it’s an OK bad movie to me.
Greg: I agree with he was right on the line I think you know exactly what I’m going to do right It’s an OK bad movie to me. Yeah this is a good bad movie it’s a good bad movie so we will celebrate that line I’m right there with you know I think we’re we’re hanging out in the same ballpark right now absolutely yeah we’re
Joe: Definitely margin of error apart on this yes yes standard deviation I totally want to watch this movie again right yeah me too so that you can kind of laugh at the ridiculousness of it because when those moments happen in your loan you’re just kind of left a little flat but when you’re with another person to be able to look at them and go are you kidding me that’s
Greg: The best part of these so here’s something that makes me laugh every time I’m watching a show or a movie with people it’s when something stressful is happening and somebody says are you okay that part of this scene.
Joe: Let’s do it.
Clip: Can you get another angle in here? It’s a blind spot. Can you get a satellite or something so we can see in there? The definition of blind is can’t see. I knew exactly where to head up. Are you okay? Yeah.
Greg: I’m so sorry to all of our listeners for pointing this out, because now you’re going to notice that this happens in just about everything you watch.
Joe: It’s so stupid. Yeah, my favorite line in there is when she’s like, you know, they’re in a blind spot and she’s like, can you get things like the definition of blind is you can’t see like that’s the best line in the whole movie quite frankly. It gets very Aaron
Greg: Sorkinish right there. Yeah. As well as you didn’t ask the question earlier. Yeah. Well, Joe.
Joe: Guess what? Did we do it? We did it. Awesome. We had the conversation that we had the conversation that people have been clamoring for about the 355. That’s the conversation that needed to be
Greg: Hot. It’s awesome. Some people who listen to this show when they see an episode, they’re like, I’ve never heard of this one either. And I bet that’s going to be the reaction to this episode.
Joe: But we enjoyed it and that’s what matters and you’ll enjoy this episode, I hope. And I just want to shout out our amazing editor, Sam Cunningham, new father so he needs some work so if you if you need an introduction and he’s looking for some additional side projects to work on to edit your podcast he’s amazing he makes us sound so much more coherent than we actually are if you heard our rough cuts versus what our final version is you’d probably be shocked at how how coherent we are in this but shout out to Sam thank you for all the work you do on this. We know so I’m wondering how many times he has seen the Odyssey new baby at home probably just once would be my guess but if it’s as good as everyone says it is maybe he’s seen it twice what do you think Greg this could be taking over Calshi everywhere how many times has Sam Cunningham seen the Odyssey since it came out.
Greg: By the time this drops, I think he has seen it once, but only because he had to bail on the second time because something came up.
Joe: Okay, yeah.
Greg: Is there a 70 millimeter I’m X in Kentucky?
Joe: I don’t know. That’s a good question. He might need to fly out here so we can all go see it together. All right. So, dear listeners, if you want to help us fly Sam out here, we’re going to need some revenue.
Greg: How do you feel about babysitting, listener?
Joe: Yes. We’re starting a kick-starter to fly Sam out here.
Greg: Well, yeah, 100% Joe, and I could not agree more because when you really kind of take a step back and really take an honest look at Sam, you just have to… Oh my gosh, Joe, I just noticed the time, I’m so sorry. Oh, yeah. Listen, this has been great, but I just realized that my zero day data set is the last generation zero day data set and I need to upgrade that to a next next generation zero day data set, A. SAP.
Joe: So I better go. Yeah, yeah, that tracks. I’ve got to go. My therapist from Columbia is here, so it’s probably time for that session.
Greg: I’m going to go about 150 miles south of Bogota Columbia. I hear they have this you know drive thing that can control everything. I don’t know. It’s my friend’s kid. I don’t really know if it’s
Joe: A real thing. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. I really need to go make sure if Sebastian Stan is dead because I think he’s probably not but I think he is he might be. You definitely want to double check. Yeah, I gotta double check. Well that works for me because actually looking at the time I really looking at the time I really, I really I really I really need to go make sure if Sebastian Stan is dead because I think he’s probably not but I think he is he might be.
Greg: You definitely want to double check that. Yeah I gotta double check. Well that works for me because actually looking at the time I really need to head out to the future systems convention because it’s in Vegas this year. Oh you know when it’s late July there’s only one place I want to go on the planet and it is Las Vegas Nevada.
Joe: Absolutely that makes total sense and listen it is again so great but yeah I’ve got a run yeah so good. There’s an auction and a gala on the dark web so I’m gonna go get dressed up for that So great. But I’ve got a run. Yeah. Yeah, so good. There’s an auction and a gala on the dark web. So I’m gonna go
Greg: Get dressed up for that Sure. It happens. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that works for me because As you know, I’m professionally a lamp hanger and I swear this one lady keeps shooting down the lamp that I’m putting up by shooting the car I don’t know how she’s doing it she’s missing everybody else as far as I can tell but she keeps shooting down my lamp so I better go that tracks I’ve got to go I’ve got a lot of work to do and I’m gonna go find a blind spot to do some work in so you know I’ll be if you need me that’s where I’ll like multiple containers of Chinese food on this table but all I see are bullets and guns and maps right now. Yeah. So I better go.
Joe: Might be the best part of that whole movie is that shot. Yes. That establishing shot. Listen, yeah, this has been great. I’ve got to go to. I’ve got to go have a very dark conversation about the first time I killed someone, but also kind of dressed up as like a point of connection and levity with all these other killers.
Greg: That scene because I need to go turn in my dad by.
Joe: Listen, this has been great, but I see you soon.
Greg: All right, well, that works for me. So Joe, thanks for watching the 355, and I will see you soon.
Joe: See you soon.