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This week, on Jeez Louise:
Dev Patel woke up and chose absolute (heartbreaking) chaos, directing himself in a revenge thriller that’s basically “John Wick meets Indian mythology but more SAD and ANGRY.” This masterpiece has Patel literally wearing a gorilla mask to get repeatedly beaten in underground fight clubs for money before transforming into a one-man apocalypse against corrupt elites.
But what makes this cinematic sledgehammer truly magnificent is how it’s simultaneously the most visceral action debut since The Raid AND a scathing political allegory about class warfare that features Dev Patel’s character learning knife skills from an outcast Indian communtiy. The movie swings wildly between heartbreaking cultural commentary and scenes where our hero gets his face literally set on fire while fighting in a burning kitchen.
Joe’s Back of the Box
Dev Patel is “Bobby” an man hell bent on revenge against the man who killed his mother when he was a kid. Bobbing and weaving its way through the slums to underground fight clubs to the up echelons of power, this beautiful and powerful action movie will make you think. Will Bobby learn to fight for something bigger than himself or will he die alone and unfulfilled?
The REAL Back of the Box
With its themes of anti authorianism, anti colonialism, and support for marginalized communities one might think this movie was made by crazed Democrats longing for a better time. But with some truly breathtaking action scenes it manages to thread the needle on message and plot. The camera moves with the action and you can almost feel the heat and humidity through the screen. While not for the faint of heart, this wild ride is well worth it.
Mentioned in this episode:
- Dev Patel’s interview in Vanity Fair
- The trailer for Dev Patel’s animated short, Roborovski
- Joe discussed this interview with Walter Murch, sound designer for Francis Ford Coppola’s biggest movies.
Note: This transcript has been auto-generated, so… You know… It’s not our fault.
Greg: Joe in the movie we watched this week, Dev Patel, the writer, director and actor in it, said, I wanted to make a film for young dev, the kid that grew up watching Bruce Lee films. If you were to make a movie for Young Joe, what would that movie be like?
Joe: Honestly, it would be very close to star Wars and the original Star Wars trilogy. Those are my first movies. My first heroes. Anyone? So I would make a total ripoff of the Star Wars movie. And like a kid who doesn’t know that he is the one and they find them and train them, then he beats the bad guy and learns this magic power or has the force or whatever I would totally rip off.
Joe: So basically what I’m saying is I would rip off Star Wars the Originals, right? I’m pretending that nothing ever came after those three. Those three were perfect, and I and I had to watch George Lucas kill all of my heroes in the final movie, his shirt. And so I will never forgive him for that.
Greg: Okay, so there’s a lack of forgiveness.
Joe: Lack of forgiveness down the road.
Greg: That’s that’s off by the the double sunset that’s happening.
Joe: Exactly. Or basically, it could be the second trilogy after this. It’s like I make Star Wars and then I make John Wick Star Wars.
Greg: Okay, okay. That would be a prequel to yours, Star Wars. John Wick would be the prequel trilogy.
Joe: Because I love prequels.
Greg: What if that was the new rule? If you’re going to make a prequel to it, it has to be a John Wick movie.
Joe: And then I’m in.
Greg: I’ll have every prequel ever. And you take a prequel since Take a Turn?
Joe: Yeah, I feel like also meta drinking game alert. It’s almost like if I don’t mention John Wick in an episode, you probably should drink because I meant John Wick movies, basically, and every, every podcast we did. And this one will be no exception because beyond just this opening bit, but also later on, later John Wick.
Greg: Gun, who does sound like a character in Star Wars. So I think we’re good.
Joe: That’s amazing. All right. But what about young Greg? What? What kind of movie does Young Greg need?
Greg: You know, it would be a lot like the fall guy. It would be a lot of action, a lot of jumping, a lot of running, a lot of stunts. But mostly just whatever the current cast of SNL is. And Ryan Gosling and Emily Blunt.
Joe: Okay, perfect.
Greg: Just whoever is the funniest people on the planet right now. That’s what we would do, I think.
Joe: Like a please don’t destroy.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: Movie of the fall guy for young Greg 100%.
Greg: Please don’t destroy. The action movie is what it would be.
Joe: I’m in I went to I would watch that every single time.
Greg: Obviously John Wick is in it, and it’s a concurrent prequel to whatever you’re doing. Okay. Oh, takes place 50 years before, whenever you’re thinking, well, we’ll call and find out where we are so we can go 50 years before.
Joe: That’s perfect. I’m in.
Greg: Great. All right, let’s get the show.
Joe: Let’s do it.
Clip: Close your eyes, and then you find yourself.
Clip: When I was a boy, my mother used to tell me a story.
Clip: Of a demon king and his army. They brought fire and terror to the land until they faced the protector of the people. Soon the white man came.
Clip: There you are.
Clip: You are a beast.
Greg: In the year 2024. Director, writer and star Dev Patel stepped up to the plate and made a movie called Monkey Man. We’re talking about Sharlto Copley, Dev Patel, pedo bash, the candor care, Sabina Dooley, Paula macron Deshpande we’ve got Chini, Kal Sarkar. Really just solid performances throughout this film. But we are about to celebrate the one year anniversary of this movie.
Greg: So Joe Skye Tucker I had never seen this movie before. You had. This is a first for our podcast, actually. What makes a monkey man a great bad movie?
Joe: This might be. And I’m on the edge of a great, great movie with this.
Greg:
Joe: Honestly, I really like this movie and I saw it last year and I remember liking it then, but I didn’t remember it very well. And, and I’ve actually watched it twice in kind of the last week. Okay. So I really like this. It’s a beautiful movie.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: Just really interesting how it shot. I, I’m a sucker for really tight handheld shots. And there there’s some, you know, some great Steadicam. But also just like the handheld where you feel like you’re running with them. So I just I don’t know why that’s.
Greg: This whole movie. There’s this whole movie.
Joe: You sent me an article about Dev Patel within Vanity Fair and talking about this movie, and he calls this a Trojan horse movie of, like, he made a John Wick movie.
Greg:
Joe: And then inside of it, he puts these social messages around anti-colonialism and hand eye authoritarianism. And you know, supporting marginalized communities and kind of wove that story together. And it really feels gritty and like you’re on the ground and sweaty with everyone. And it’s just a great action movie. So there are some really wonderful action sequences that kind of there’s, a couple scenes towards the end of the movie that I literally rewound.
Joe: And just watched them again because it was really interesting and doing nothing that I hadn’t seen before, but it was doing what I had seen before really. Well. And so I had just turned up the temperature a little bit on it. And so I really enjoyed this movie. I think Dev Patel did a great job. I can’t believe you wrote, starred in and acted in this movie.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: Co-wrote.
Joe: But yeah, it seems like it’d be really hard to direct this kind of movie and also act in it. Totally. Yeah, he’s it’s such a physical performance that he is giving as well. So I really love this movie. But what is your take on this movie? Is this a great bad movie or is this a great, great movie?
Joe: Where are you? What’s what’s the Greg’s fine art take on Monkey Man?
Greg: Well, so this is what our 23rd episode that we’re releasing somewhere around there. This will be the first movie that we’ve released that I hadn’t seen before. We decided to do an episode on it. So this is going to be kind of a different kind of episode for me, because usually when we do this, it’s a movie that I have a lot of nostalgic, great bad feelings for already.
Greg: So I kind of already have an idea of how I’m going to enjoy the movie, and I’m looking forward to it. This movie, as I was watching it, I really struggled with it and hear me out real quick. Okay, this is a really great movie. It is not hard to say that they’re just in completely great things about it.
Greg: It struggles a little bit in some areas, but it’s easy to list the greatness. It’s shot super well. The performances are incredible. This thing was made for $10 million. Yeah, that’s.
Joe: Insane these days.
Greg: I mean, just unbelievable. It was shot during Covid, so they had to change the location from India to to.
Joe: Indonesia.
Greg: Or Tunisia. That’s right, that’s right. Yeah. So it’s beautifully shot. The choreography, the stunt coordination, the, the second unit directing the performances. It’s all so engrossing. And the story itself where Dev Patel, his mom, has been brutally killed by the bad guy, and then his whole village is in the forest, is burned down. So heartbreaking. And his performance as he’s, like, flashing back to that.
Greg: Almost across the board is amazing. Sometimes he kind of goes from 0 to 10 to like panic attack. Yeah, a little bit faster than I don’t know I personally felt like he should but I’m, you know what a who am I. But because it’s so well-made when it, the script starts to kind of jump in some spots, not everything is super well weaved together.
Greg: It seems like some of this movie was maybe kind of trimmed before it was released, in ways where I was kind of like, did I miss something? Or there’s some simple things where there’s some shortcuts in the storytelling, like people are horrible to women, so that makes it a bad person, you know? And the people who are sympathetic to women, that’s like, there’s some shorthand, things like that.
Greg: Yeah, that were a little bit like, all right, you know, but the main thing is this is kind of horror level gore. In it. And that is just kind of where my personal line is, you know, I’m learning this about myself where it’s like this is so rough and I’m so emotionally invested in the characters that I, I’m not necessarily enjoying this movie as I watch it.
Joe: There are so many credit like you get right to the final end where he gets the bad guy.
Greg: Yeah, yeah.
Joe: And that scene is in credibly brutal. You don’t even see a lot of it, but you just kind of imagine it as like the culmination of everything that he has been through.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: In one moment. Yeah. And it is, it is a little hard to watch. Like I had to turn away.
Greg: Which I think is the point. Yeah. But also it’s a revenge movie. And I, you know, what I’m learning is I might not be the biggest revenge movie fan. So this is a great movie but not the most enjoyable movie for Greg sweetheart, I’m glad we’re watching it. I’m glad we’re talking about it. But it’s a little bit of a brutal movie.
Greg: Like when you talk to somebody who loves this movie and maybe you’re in this camp, they’re going to talk about how awesome some of the kills are, like, it’s a horror movie, and that’s not how I operate. I’m like, oh yeah, it was really kinetic. The chase scenes were amazing, the fight choreography was unbelievable, and the fight choreography in this movie is unbelievable.
Greg: Yeah, but it also just gets a little bit. I found my line, you know, and there is some sort of kind of gore line when it comes to action movies that basically is like an action horror movie in some ways. Yeah. I think that’s where just my personal line is. And because the performances here are so good and I’m so on board with the story as far as, like, sympathetic to everything that’s happening, it was pretty engrossing.
Greg: It hurts more. So it’s a very affecting movie. Yeah. Which makes it not necessarily why I sit down to watch a movie in 2025, I guess. So it’s an interesting one for me. I want to celebrate this movie with you.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: But also like sometimes I was like, oh my gosh, what are we doing right now? Yeah.
Joe: They lean a little bit heavy into the CGI blood splatter. Yeah, they really love really tight shots on the faces of people when they’re like struggling and like spitting out blood and things like that. So you, you know, it is more affecting, you know, if you compared it to John Wick, John Wick has more, way more action sequences and the higher body count.
Joe: And it feels weirdly lighter, like the stakes don’t feel the same. This one feels like you could have made this movie without the kind of the action scenes, almost like if you took them out with a different kind of movie. But, you know, maybe it’s just going in there to shoot em and it’s more of like a drama.
Joe: You could have totally steered it so there would have been some action in it. But I would call this an action movie. Yeah, there are some dramas that have action scenes in them, but really lean more on the characters. And this is trying to thread that needle, and that’s kind of what he says he’s trying to do in this movie is, yeah, like that.
Joe: And so I feel like for me, ten out of ten on what he was trying to do with it.
Greg:
Joe: You know, and like the messages he was trying to portray and how he did it, there are some scenes like there is true to a great bad movie. Everybody is taking this incredibly seriously. There is no this is like melodramatic on par with John Wayne movies. Sure. So there’s that piece of it that I love as well. It doesn’t get quite as ridiculous.
Joe: It feels a little bit personal within the movie, and so I think that that I really liked his character and the other characters in it. It’s got a pretty standard action movie martial arts trope of, you know, revenge. Yeah, he gets beat up. He’s got to find the resolve within them and find who he’s supposed to fight for.
Joe: Training montage in the middle.
Greg: Glorious.
Joe: And then my new trope where it is an in specifically in these kind of movies and like martial arts movies, is like when the hero realizes his power. And so there’s a couple moments of like, oh, he’s he’s done the training and now he.
Greg: Believes, oh, I mean, totally.
Joe: And so I really I love those pieces of it because it’s, it’s following a pretty standard story that we’ve seen a million different ways.
Greg: Totally.
Joe: You could even throw a kill bill in there to some of the, you know, the matrix using that kind of arc of, of the character. And so I appreciated all the nods to that and to that Bruce Lee movies. Yeah. And it does it really well. I think that’s the thing that just stands out for me is just how well made this movie is, how great the performances are.
Joe: Yeah. And how tight the choreography. They’re like two scenes. There’s one in the kitchen that he has, and then there’s one kind of like in a ballroom. Yeah. And it’s like the classic one against ten, right? That’s so good. They’re just really so fun to watch.
Greg: Yeah, I bet in a year, if we run through this again, I bet I have a better take on it or I’m more open to celebrating it. But this movie, you know, as I was watching, I was like this. And this could entirely be just totally subjective. I was like, this really kind of hurts. I’m not in the mood for this.
Greg: It’s very overwhelming. And and part of it was because it was so effective.
Joe: Yeah. And I made myself watch it again over the weekend because I’d watched it during the week, and I had my notes and I felt like I would have been fine having the conversation that needed to be had about it. Like watching it again. And I always feel this way. It’s like I catch way more the second time through.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: You know, and when I can, I try to do that for this, but I was able to watch more of kind of the what they’re putting into it. I really appreciated kind of how they use music, weaving it in kind of like hip hop and then kind of like, I guess Bollywood hip hop or or Indian hip hop, and then sometimes even there’s no sound and then they would turn up the sound editing really loud.
Joe: And that was kind of the soundtrack behind it. So yeah, I really just got to sit back and enjoy the movie the second time. Yeah. And having watched it twice, I have so many drinking games that pop that. So, you know, we’re good on that front.
Greg: Yeah, I totally get it. I definitely did fast forward certain parts of this because I was just like, I don’t need to see that kind of knife work on somebody’s face, you know? But he does an incredible job directing this. He came up with this idea in 2014 and kind of wrote down the story and then brought in a couple other people to help him out with the screenplay.
Greg: But he asked Neill Blomkamp to direct this movie. He said, hey, I’m working on a script, I want you to do it. And Neill Blomkamp had directed Dev Patel and Sharlto Copley, who’s in this movie, the guy from district nine. If that name doesn’t ring a bell or the A-Team, we should just say from the A-Team, obviously. And Neill Blomkamp sat down with him and after hearing him talk about, he said, you’re too into this.
Greg: I think you should make it like you know this story through and through. I think you know what this needs to be because it was so personal for him. Can you imagine directing your first movie and trying to star in it? And so he would do everything but his part, like his shot. You get all the other actors doing their close ups and whatever, and then at the end he would do his and he basically didn’t know his lines.
Greg: He didn’t remember what he was going to do. He would go in entirely cold for a couple, a couple takes. And there’s some times where when they cut to him in this movie, his face is at a ten when it seems like it should be at a seven. He’s like exasperated and kind of doing something, and it doesn’t quite fit where I thought the scene was going.
Joe: I can see that he.
Greg: Was directing his first movie. You know what? You can’t expect this guy to also carry it, you know? What was he thinking?
Joe: Yeah, I would agree with that. And you can almost see him searching for lines, but it kind of works for his character and he’s in almost every scene. So I just it’s so crazy to me. And, and I said this before, but it’s such a physical performance.
Greg: He’s amazing. He made a movie that no one was going to cast him in. Yeah. We should all be hiring ourselves to do things that nobody else wants us to do. Yeah, but we know we have it in us. You know, I know.
Joe: I want like, Monkey man 11. My bad is the monkey man and then the monkey the man. Like, whatever we’ll do. Fast and furious a verse of of all of that.
Greg: But totally.
Joe: I’m also totally fine if it’s a standalone and we never revisit this character. You know, it’s one of those like, that’s interesting. I could see him just like, does he die at the end? Does he not as a matter.
Greg: Right.
Joe: But yeah, I totally agree that there are there are moments of mismatch within it and and pieces. But it’s just I still can’t believe it’s his first film. $10 million.
Greg: Yeah, $10 million made for Netflix. And India is a very important market for Netflix. And when they kind of figured out what it was that he was doing and he’s including he’s not saying any specific names. But there are there are some things that are real in this movie that are part of the Hindi culture. But then probably the things that got a little bit too close to real life that made Netflix nervous.
Greg: He changed the names, but it’s pretty obvious, I think, who he’s talking about or what themes you know, that are actually happening in India. So Netflix bails, they make it, but they’re like, we’re not going to put this out because that’s how companies are. It’s their choice. And somehow Jordan Peele side and Jordan Peele’s Monkeypaw Productions are at is set up at universal.
Greg: And he reaches out and says, I love your movie. I kind of want to do you want to talk about it? And so they talked for like three hours and Monkeypaw buys it for $10 million, puts it out, and it makes like 35. So there’s just a lot there. But it’s mostly this guy believed in what he wanted to make everybody listening to this.
Greg: Everybody on the planet has something that they should make, but nobody else is gonna hire them for. I mean, this should inspire everybody to do this. Absolutely. And this was what he he wanted to make. And so, you know, I love that about this movie. I just don’t need to see that much, nor should we talk a little bit about what happens in this movie and what story he’s trying to tell.
Greg: Sure. It kind of starts with him when he was young and his mom is telling him a story about the mighty, Hanuman. Just like the monkey man. He had, like, special powers.
Joe: Yeah, he was created for a reason. Then he’s kind of like the defender of the of the downtrodden. That’s kind of how it’s set up. And then there’s even, like, in the middle of it when he’s having his, like, existential crisis. They have this moment where he’s. I won’t ruin it for anybody who wants to watch it, but basically end up being like the flashback to him watching, puppet show.
Greg: Of about.
Joe: This as well.
Greg: Yeah, yeah. And then we kind of cut to I’m assuming modern day Sharlto Copley is in a fight club. I’m reading my notes here. Sharlto Copley just showed up. Is that a bad sign?
Joe: No way. He’s one of those actors to me that anytime he shows up in a movie, I am happy to.
Greg: Okay, okay. Has he been in many good movies?
Joe: District nine is amazing, amazing.
Greg: And his first. As far as for our concern, you know, to see him and stuff before that.
Joe: The A-Team is an immaculate movie.
Greg: Which was like the next year. I want to say.
Joe: He was in a movie that I haven’t finished, that Sam Raimi just did, that I need to start over and watch. It’s an action. The main characters are mute, but he has H. John Benjamin as his voice in his head.
Greg: Oh, sure.
Joe: Yeah. What was that.
Greg: Way kills world or something?
Joe: Yeah, I was I, I’m always happy to see him in every movie he’s in. Okay. And I want him to get as much work as he needs to get to me. He’s always like, we kind of like him, but he also feels pretty slimy as well. So it’s like, I think great actors can do like it’s I would say he’s a great character actor in that.
Joe: Like, you kind of like him and also don’t like him at the same time. And that’s a really hard line to walk as an actor. I think he’s.
Greg: Crazy.
Joe: Yeah, exactly. What’s your thoughts on on Sharlto Copley I.
Greg: Think he’s okay, but I notice that when he’s in movies, the movies aren’t great. And so early on I was like, oh.
Greg: I like this guy, but he and he’s not really in the movie. In fact, I wonder if they, like, cut out some of the movie that happens down in the like, Fight Club. Dev Patel has the monkey mask on very little in this movie. He kind of think like, that’s going to be a big part of it from the trailer.
Greg: Yeah. But also, he probably wanted to show that he was really doing this stuff. So, I appreciate that. And we are just constantly flashing back in this movie. Yeah, so many flashbacks, so many. And so we kind of are getting the sense that, Dev Patel’s his mom didn’t make it, his village didn’t make it, and there was a bad guy who is the cause of it all.
Greg: And that was that Rana.
Joe: Yeah, like the head of police.
Greg: Yeah. And also, they’re kind of cutting, too. A lot of news footage or like, news show footage of Baba Shakti. Yeah, there’s a guru, a man of peace. The nation’s lion, born of poverty but not held captive by it. Just total propaganda. Yeah.
Joe: That’s awesome.
Greg: Dev Patel’s name in this movie, by the way, is the kid. He’s just kid.
Joe: Although he is called Bobby by his friend that he meets kind of when he gets the job.
Greg: Alphonso. Yeah. He says what do people call you. And he says Bobby and he’s holding Bobby’s bleach. He’s holding like something that says Bobby on it. So yeah, they’re kind of implying that that’s where he got that name. We cut to a kid who seems to know who all the best people to steal from are. This kid is telling it to Dev Patel, and the next day we kind of see someone steal from the woman that he was pointing out.
Greg: And then it’s like a guy in a wheelchair and he leaves. He steals this woman’s, like, clutch her purse, and then he goes to an alley, abandons the wheelchair. He doesn’t need the wheelchair. And then how many times do you think this clutch is exchanges hands throughout this town?
Joe: It’s like 5 or 6 times. It’s pretty awesome.
Greg: You’re half right. It was 12 relays. The most elaborate scheme in history. Yeah, I’m guessing we did this so that we could see this area of fake Mumbai, but it is the most ridiculously convoluted plan. Now we have a dozen people who know this crime who are implicated in this. Yeah, it didn’t make any sense to me, but it was like, okay, this is kind of fun.
Greg: And then it reaches Dev Patel and we’re good.
Joe: Yeah. And we’re kind of led to believe with that opening scene that he kind of is like, well known and beloved within that community or within that space. But at that actually doesn’t really prove out to be true. So that’s one of those like it’s a cool scene, it’s fun. But they were setting up one kind of character arc and we kind of got another with that.
Greg: Yeah. And that whole scene totally reminded me of Danny Boyle. And we first saw Dev Patel in Slumdog Millionaire. Yeah, this very much felt like a Danny Boyle kind of Slumdog Millionaire. He seemed to me.
Joe: Oh, yeah, I could totally see that. And he talks about it in that article, just about his respect for Danny Boyle. And so, yeah, a gleeful homage or outright stealing from him and those moments.
Greg: It’s just understandable that your first thing would be an outright steal from the people that you know and love. And I’m sure Danny Boyle was like, yeah, do whatever you want. That’s fine. Like the first rush album sounds exactly like LED Zeppelin, right? A lot of bands, their first album sounds a lot like, you know, yeah, they’re heroes.
Greg: You got to get that out first. You know? So I don’t judge him for it. It’s amazing. It’s actually pretty fun to watch. So yeah, but there’s a card in there that has like a crown on it for a place. I guess it’s called Kings, I think.
Joe: So.
Greg: And it’s Queenie Kapoor and she’s the manager there. And so he goes there to like, return it and say, I found this near where you were having coffee or whatever with all the money in it, and she gives him some cash and he says, actually, just keep your cash and give me a job here. I’ll do the job that nobody wants to do.
Greg: And so he ends up in the pit and his hands are all scarred. He says it’s from bleach and doing the jobs that nobody else wants to do. But really it’s from when he’s trying to save his mom and his house is burning down. So depressing. Yes.
Joe: Yes. He burns his hands trying to revive her after she’s been killed. Yeah. That’s a pretty that’s a brutal scene. That’s another one I had to look away.
Greg: I fast forward to that. But I’m glad. I’m glad he tried to revive her. But I was like, Greg Swineherd cannot watch this in 2025. It’s too much. Yeah. He returns the wallet, he gets a job as a dishwasher, and then he meets Alfonso, who is like this kind of kind of the comic relief. He has a mini vehicle like a mini car.
Joe: Yeah. Was a TikTok or something like that.
Greg: Is that what it’s called. Is. Yeah. It’s named Nicki Minaj. And so we’re kind of building out the world and then he goes to a place and asked for the juice special, you know. Yeah. We’re just like one regular pond and like, a food truck kind of place. And then he orders the raw juice special. And this kid then walks him through that area of town to get to the dude who sells the guns.
Joe: Yeah. And that’s our first real John Wick reference for him. And they actually reference John Wick in that.
Greg: Yeah, actually namecheck it. Yeah. Let’s listen to that. You like John Wick was just just came in. Yeah. The guy same cut from the movie but made in China. Oh, cool. So he buys this gun and. But there’s very little, like, gun stuff in this movie. Yeah. Which is interesting because when they made John Wick, they wanted it to be guns, because that was easier to film.
Greg: Yeah. But in this one they were like, we’re going to take half the money. Yeah. Took it for half that budget. And it’s going to be basically Bruce Lee. Yeah. Other influences as well. But yeah.
Joe: I definitely feel like they borrowed nicely from classic kung fu movies for the fight scenes and the John Wick of the longer shots that are happening, multiple things, you know.
Greg: It seems very similar.
Joe: Those are the my favorite moments where you kind of see them blending some of these things together. And again, I keep coming back to that. You know, there’s a pretty brutal fighting that happens in the bathroom. The first kind of real fight scene that’s not in the ring. Right? And he’s like going to kill the bad guy. And we kind of basically he, you know, he gets the gun, he kind of works his way up.
Joe: You know, starts meeting some of the other people there and kind of gets up to the VIP room, which is basically Queenie Kapoor runs a brothel for all the richest, most powerful men in in Mumbai or wherever it’s supposed to take place. Right. And Rana is there and there’s a frequent tour of that spot and kind of the the woman that he likes is like his main paramour.
Joe: But we get this brutal fight scene in that bathroom.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: Shades. A little bit of every bathroom scene is held against a few different. So we have Mission Impossible Fallout, obviously, and we have True Lies. Are kind of like, to me, the class of bathroom fight scenes.
Greg: Neither of them were willing to drop a gun into a poopy toilet, though. Yeah, which is just disgusting.
Joe: Yes, that was gross. I was like, we didn’t need that. You kind of know the extent of I kind of lived a good life without that shot.
Greg: Yeah, but, you know, Slumdog Millionaire was pretty brutal at times.
Joe: I’ve never seen it.
Greg: Oh, really?
Joe: It was one of those movies that everyone was like, this is the greatest movie ever. And I was like, nope, I’m not watching your dumb movie. Even though I love Danny Boyle.
Greg: Yeah, yeah, we could probably look to that movie for like, no, it’s okay if we go that far. I did it in Slumdog Millionaire. Anyways, he isn’t able to kill the guy who killed his mom. Rana, the bad cop. Yeah. So now the rest of the movie is like him trying to, I don’t know, build up his confidence, realize the warrior that he really is.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: Give him something to fight for other than just revenge. Yeah. There’s a lot in there for the rest of the movie. That’s pretty good.
Joe: Yeah, we got kind of a nice chase scene after that, right? Him kind of running down, trying to get away from all the bad guys. A little bit of a car chase in there.
Greg: A little car.
Joe: Yeah. Yeah. So and that’s a fun scene. And then he kind of is rescued by this community of trans folks or like, and they’re a community, a specific community that is in India of them that they’re talking about. And I just yeah, I want to do it justice. But really they are ostracized and take him in when no one else would and nurse and back to health basically.
Greg: Yeah, he gets to that. He goes to his temple. That’s a sanctuary for the Hedra community. And I think that community’s been there for like a thousand years. It’s been there really long time. And it’s people who are it’s basically what we would call a transgender community. But, when we meet kind of the main person there, alpha, really powerful stuff going on in those scenes.
Greg: You know, Alpha says they’re not going to find you here because they don’t come here. And so he’s able to be nursed back to health. But also in the hero’s journey, you kind of have to go down to the depths of your fears and your trauma. To be born again, I guess, is kind of yeah, as a warrior, he he kind of gets this stuff out and says, like, if you take this, it’s going to basically take you on some kind of like a mushroom trip almost.
Greg: You know, he says only a weakened man can benefit from this. Only a strong man can survive it. And then he takes it. Oh, and he says the pain. It will leave you once it’s finished teaching you.
Joe: Yeah, that’s the line. That’s my favorite line. I was like.
Greg: Oh, good.
Joe: That needs to be on every t shirt ever.
Greg: 100%. Yeah. Let’s hear a little bit of how good the acting is in this in this movie. I think this is after Dev Patel has gone through kind of reliving his trauma. And Alpha is kind of like building him up again. He says he failed his mom and.
Clip:
Clip: He’ll try to save her.
Clip: You’ll see scars.
Clip: I see the courage of a child fighting to see his mother.
Clip: These are the elements of her warrior who’s destined to challenge the boards. All your life you’ve been fighting to feel been. You need to fight for the purpose. Fight.
Clip: For all of us. It’s time to remember who you are.
Greg: And I was just like, what is this movie I’m watching? These performances are incredible. These themes are unbelievable. Really good stuff. You know, I don’t think this movie is bigger than the sum of its parts, and I think you have to be a little bit forgiving with its parts when you look at them all, which makes it a great bad movie.
Greg: But this movie really is incredible. I would agree with that.
Joe: And I think again that going back to his, his kind of thesis of making the Trojan Horse movie, that’s the movie he wants to make. It’s about healing of the trauma and the pain. And when it’s gone, it’s, it’s only gone when it’s taught to the lesson. Like, that’s the thesis of this movie.
Greg: Yeah, yeah.
Joe: And we’re going to dress it up around some cool action scenes and kind of a cool, sure feel and look and feel of it, you know. But I remember because Gillian was listening to it as I, as she was falling asleep, it’s just like, what is this movie? This movie.
Greg: Is crazy.
Joe: And then I made her watch the scene where, like, he’s like, having that trip where it’s like, you have to see this.
Greg: This is.
Joe: So good. The themes of it, they push them more than they would in a normal action movie. And so I really appreciated that. You know.
Greg: It’s yeah, this movie has more hearts than your average great bad movie.
Joe: Yeah for sure.
Greg: And I almost held that against it because it was too effective on me. Yeah. I can’t distance myself from what’s happening in this movie. Yeah. And I judge it for that.
Joe: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I, I totally agree. And that’s in terms of like if you’re looking at John Wick.
Greg: You don’t.
Joe: Feel really a lot of emotional attachment. Right. Characters or what’s happening or, you know, just like they’re just faceless bad guys and they’re being killed. And yes, we like Keanu Reeves, we like John Wick. But yeah, it’s just, we’re just watching a cool action movie. This is trying to say something and move the culture forward in some way.
Joe: Yeah, and you don’t get that a lot in these kinds of movies. And so I, I really did appreciate it. And that article really clarified the movie. I think I’d watched it, but I read that between watching some of it. So I’m not able to really like, yeah, see what he was talking about and what he’s trying to do.
Joe: And I was like, oh, it makes perfect sense.
Greg: We’ll link to that article from, yeah, the page of this episode on Great Bad movies.com. I was really happy. I was kind of fishing around for his take on what this movie was. I was pretty happy when I found that in that article. Did he talk about a short film that he made before this.
Joe: Either before or after it, that was an animated film?
Greg: Yeah, okay. It was right before this. He made, like an animated film with his girlfriend and some other animators over Covid, and he said it was really nice to work on it because it forced him to think about where he would put a camera for something, but not on the set of a real movie. You know, it was just what to tell the animators where it where he thinks the perspective should be, and it’s about a little kind of mouse like creature that at night becomes like a killing ninja.
Greg:
Joe: Yeah. Or a hamster that’s trying to like kill the right. The more attractive animals in the pet store. It’s awesome.
Greg: Yeah. It seems like. Well you can watch the trailer online. I’ll also put that on great bad movies.com. You can’t find the short film anywhere. It’s not available anywhere. I tried to even buy it last night. I want to watch it so bad is 12 minutes. But there’s a lot of similar motifs. Like, they show the little, you know, hamster or whatever, and the red light goes over it exactly like the the poster of Monkey Man and even like the comingsoon text that comes on the screen afterwards, I think is basically the same text as, you know, you see in this movie for Monkey Man, it’s very interesting stuff, you know.
Joe: Yeah. What I took away from that article one is don’t sleep on Dev Patel 100%. And now I’m in his corner.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: And I’m going to watch almost everything he does, if not everything he does. And I’m a fan of him as a director, as a writer and as an actor. And I really had only known him from Slumdog Millionaire.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: And all the hype around that movie. Yeah, no, I’ve probably seen him and other stuff that he’s been in, but really that was front and center in my mind. And so this is like a nice demarcation from that movie. Oh, this is what you can do. I’m in. Let’s see what the next one is going to be.
Greg: Did you ever watch The Newsroom?
Joe: No, I didn’t have HBO at the time when that was on.
Greg: He was in that he is pretty good, but he was like, you know, young, naive guy. People probably know him from lion. Well, the Green Knight was a movie that, people really liked that I haven’t seen. I’m embarrassed to say I haven’t seen it. Hotel Mumbai is another movie from 2018 that I’d like check out. It’s like an action movie.
Greg: One of the co-writers of this movie was the writer of that movie, John Collie, and I think he’s the reason this script really kind of works and reaches the emotional depths that it does. I think we can point to John Collie has a lot of really well-regarded movies that I hadn’t heard of, but they all are pretty well-regarded, and he has a shorts from 2014 that is titled Tango Underpants author.
Greg: So I’m John Collins biggest fan now. Yeah, if you’re making stuff called Tango Underpants, that’s hilarious. I’m assuming the, the sequel was tango breeches under breeches.
Joe: Yeah, under breeches obviously.
Greg: Anyways, he’s a co-writer on this. I bet that’s why dev Patel’s story by kind of napkin outline, turned into a real script that was the backbone of a great movie. I bet it’s John Collie. There’s another writer on this, but it’s hard to tell what he would have contributed to it. I wonder if we could talk about some music in this movie.
Greg: Sure. Like I mentioned, when Sharlto Copley showed up, I was a little bit concerned. I tell you what, I wasn’t concerned when the opening of this movie happened and they’re showing the different studios that are involved. This is what the music sounded like right here.
Greg: Very like Bourne Identity ish. Interested? Interested? I’m intrigued. It seems like something hannigan’s going to happen.
Greg: Whatever this is, this is how every movie should start. Yeah, this is how my comedy, The Fall Guy would start with this SNL. Oh, that’s a good one right there.
Joe: Yeah. Bringing those somber earth tones into the.
Greg: But some mysterious mysteriousness.
Greg: We had a bit of their birds too. Anyways, this just floored me. As this was happening, I was like, well, I am going to record this music because I am already getting good vibes right now. But then there was another time in the movie. This actually happened a few times where this chime happened, and I’m wondering what you thought of when you heard it.
Greg: That ring a bell? A chime right there.
Joe: I really liked the music and the sound editing in this movie. Yeah.
Greg: Me too.
Joe: It was so good.
Greg: I had an.
Joe: Experience of years and years ago. I think it was like fresh air. I don’t feel I ever listen that with Terry Gross. I’m sure you’re.
Greg: Yeah, of course they have.
Joe: The sound editor who worked with Francis Ford Coppola, and he had won a couple Oscars for sound editing, I think, on Apocalypse Now, and I think he worked on The Godfather as well. The first one.
Greg: The conversation was a really big sound editing movie as well. With Gene Hackman. Rest in peace. He was the guy who was like getting field recordings as a spy.
Joe: Right? I had never appreciated what sound editing was in a movie, until I listened to him talk about it. And they listened to two scenes in particular, one from apocalypse Now and one from The Godfather. And if you haven’t seen The Godfather, for anyone listening, there’s a scene where Michael Corleone, the youngest son who becomes The Godfather, kills people in a restaurant, and it’s like his first act as becoming the godfather of becoming back into the family.
Joe: He’s like the assassin who hates that his father is a criminal and is. But he does it, and there’s no music in that scene. But there is. And then, like an elevated train is outside and he talks about utilizing the sound of a train going by as raising the tension in the scene. And as the scene comes to its kind of crescendo, it’s almost like a kettle of water boiling on the stove and the steam.
Joe: And it was like, that’s brilliant, because that scene is incredibly intense to watch and stressful if you’re rooting for Michael Corleone. And I was like, oh, so that’s what sound editing is. It’s like setting this. And then there’s another scene that’s in Apocalypse Now where he, like, turns the sound down. So like, you hear all the jungle and then you hear, like, the bad guys or like the Vietcong that are shooting at them.
Joe: They can’t really they’re not going to hit them. They’re just kind of messing with them. And then he slowly turns like the sound of the jungle down, and then you just kind of hear this voice that’s kind of taunting them in the background, and then it gets quiet and quieter to kind of show that that has no impact on them.
Joe: But like, the enemy is close but can’t really harm them. Both of those explanations, I was like, oh, this is why you need to pay attention to sound editing. It’s not just like making people’s footsteps or, you know, if they’re.
Greg: The boom shoes.
Joe: Hanging up a phone. Yeah, this is how you tell a full story. And I feel like this movie really leans into that. There are times when the sound editing is much louder than it should be, much quieter, and then the soundtrack, both in the score and the music. Yeah, really tell this story as well. So I love that you brought that up because that’s it was one of my favorite parts of this movie.
Joe: That kind of would go unnoticed if you’re not looking for it.
Greg: Yeah. Totally agree. Well, let me tell you the story that I heard when this happened. Okay? Okay.
Clip: El numero noun. Him in there. Now, now now now now now. Spanish. Now me now.
Joe: Okay, I’m back here. I’m back.
Greg: In. It’s all Top Gun.
Joe: Everything come back to Top Gun.
Greg: Absolutely. And so and it happened a few times like okay, why the Top Gun time guys. What’s happening at the Top Gun? Steal something from Mumbai. Or as Monkey Man stealing something from Top Gun. There’s. There’s probably no way to find out.
Joe: That theme will forever remind me of when we lived together. I think Chad Johnson was over him. And we are listening to the Crow soundtrack, which has the Rage Against the Machine song on it.
Greg: Right? Right.
Joe: And he was talking about it because he had just seen them, like back East or like in Chicago or something like that. And he was like. And then he takes a whip out a book of Allen Ginsberg poems. And I was reading from it and it was like, and then they play that song, and then there’s a moment in the song from the Crow soundtrack that Rage Against the Machine have, or they have a guitar solo and you go, that guitar solo sounds just like the Top Gun guitar.
Joe: Oh, and so I cannot hear that song without hearing the Top Gun theme.
Greg: In.
Joe: My head.
Greg: Maybe I say this every day to everyone around me like, this totally goes back to Top Gun, right?
Joe: Could be, it could be.
Greg: It’s the only guitar I know that exists. That’s the only interesting thing I could say. The guitar is playing, but then there’s other music where it’s like a remix of, Roxanne by The Police. Which a little on the nose when you’re seeing prostitutes. Yeah. Or escorts. Yeah. This movie is a little on the nose a lot of the time.
Greg: And there I think there are a lot of things in Indian culture that, that we are missing.
Joe: And it doesn’t hide from that, which I appreciate it or didn’t Americanize it to like.
Greg: Right.
Joe: Totally puts, you know, the fish out of water there to explain it to us. It’s just like you either get it or you don’t.
Greg: But they also had just incredible musicians throughout, lots of really good music in this movie. One of the most famed percussionists on the planet, Zakir Hussain, was in it, and he was the guy who was playing what is it called, the tabla, the drums. During the training montage?
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: He’s like one of the most famous, you know, musicians to come from there. Like, won a Grammy a couple years ago. I think I heard in India when his name was on the screen in the opening credits, people like cheered.
Joe: Oh, awesome. Yeah.
Greg: But he is incredible. So while he’s playing, that’s what the training montage is happening to. I could have used more montage, to be honest.
Joe: Yes, the training montage in a in a martial arts film is.
Greg: A.
Joe: Time honored. And they I feel like they totally could have done a little bit more. Yeah, showing a little bit more. It’s still a great montage. But you know, it could have been like three minutes longer and I would have been totally happy with that.
Greg: Yeah, totally. You know, it occurs to me each other, probably some people listening to this who have not seen Monkey Man.
Joe: Oh, interesting.
Greg: And so let’s pretend you are going through Amazon Prime, because that’s where this movie is right now. And you’re trying to figure out what movie you’re going to watch. You’re reading the descriptions, which is digital versions of the back of the box, as we would read at Blockbuster Video back in the day. That’s right. It’s time for the back of the box.
Joe: It’s the back of the box. Dev Patel is Bobby in air quotes hell bent on revenge against the man who killed his mother when he was a kid, bobbing and weaving its way to the slums, to the underground fight clubs, the upper echelons of power, this beautiful and powerful action movie will make you think. Will Bobby learn to fight for something bigger than himself, or will he die alone and unfulfilled?
Joe: Wow. So it’s a somber. It’s a this is a different kind of movie for us.
Greg: That is interesting because this movie is so emotional. That’s probably the accurate back in the box. I don’t know if I rent it, to be honest.
Joe: Right. We found the line, the Greg spine hard line.
Greg: I’m like, this sounds pretty good. I’m gonna put this one down.
Greg: Okay, that’s the marketing back of the box. Well written, by the way. Nice work on that one. But what’s the like? True. Honest Joe Skye Tucker real back in the box.
Joe: With its themes of anti-authoritarian ism, anti-colonialism, and support for marginalized communities, one might think this movie was made by crazed Democrats longing for a better time, but with some truly breathtaking action scenes, it manages to thread the needle on message and plot. The camera moves with the action, and you can almost feel the heat and humidity through the screen.
Joe: Well, not for the faint of heart, this wild ride is well worth it.
Greg: Love it. Yeah, we can have sequels. We could not have sequels. Yeah. Joe, should we talk about, the box office and some reviews before we get to drinking games for Monkey Man?
Joe: Let’s do it.
Greg: This movie costs $10 million and it made $35 million internationally. I think if I read this right, it was made for $10 million, then purchased by Netflix for 30 million. Then Netflix didn’t put it out and sold it to universal for 10 million, and then it made $35 million. So if I’m understanding that trajectory right, this movie made $55 million.
Greg: Sure, I know who got the money or. Yeah, but I feel like this is a risk worth taking and a creative risk that pays off. I will see the next thing Dev Patel does.
Joe: Absolutely.
Greg: You know what? I bet it won’t be an action movie the next year. I bet it’ll be something else. Because just like we didn’t know he had this in him, I bet his next thing will surprise us as well.
Joe: Yeah, absolutely.
Greg: What do you think the tomato rating on this movie is on Rotten Tomatoes?
Joe: Joe feels like a 70. It’s one of our films.
Greg: Yeah it does feel like a 70.
Joe: But I think critics would like this movie. So I’m going to go 85 on critics score.
Greg: You’re really good at this 89 okay. And how about the the popcorn meter. The audience rating on on Rotten Tomatoes.
Joe: Usually the popcorn meter is a little higher. I’m going to go lower, I think, because I.
Greg: Like where you’re going with this.
Joe: It’s a hard to watch. So I’m going the 75 on the popcorn meter.
Greg: 8282.
Joe: Okay, here’s what’s.
Greg: Weird 500 verified ratings in the popcorn meter on this movie. Usually it’s like 250,000. So I don’t know if we can truly trust the popcorn. I mean you’re right this feels about right 82. But it’s it’s rare to see that little of a response for a movie on here. So that surprises me.
Joe: Yeah I can see this being one of those by cult classic movies in a few years where it like.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: Catches or you know, or there’s another movie that Dev Patel does that’s really popular and people kind of come back and rediscover this and.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: Yeah, because I can see that coming up. I feel like both of those feel about right for me, about where it should be. Yeah.
Greg: So yeah 89 feels a little high. Yeah obviously. But I also it’s such a good swing at the plate that I respect it. He said. I wanted to make a movie that had some substance for the people who like John Wick and The Raid. I think that’s exactly what he did here. Yeah, he really did exactly what he set out to do.
Greg: All right. Let’s get into some reviews of this movie. We always start with our local paper, The Seattle Times. Katie Walsh says it’s easy to forgive any messiness or missteps in the first half when he nails the third act with such style and vigor. Part of this review is the directing seems to get better as the movie goes with Monkey Man, Patel manages to pull it off and then some, signaling himself as an actor and filmmaker who should and will be seen differently, effectively following a similar trajectory to one of the film’s producers, Jordan Peele, who made a similar statement with Get Out.
Greg: I completely agree with this. Yes, Patel did it his way, forged his own path, and we’ll never look at him in the same light again. And that’s a good thing.
Joe: I 100% agree.
Greg: Yeah, yeah, just killed it. And the Seattle Times Network, NPR in Los Angeles, Peter Rainier wrote for what it is. It’s quite effective. And Patel is a credible action hero. New York Times did not like this movie as much. Manohla Dargis, who’s incredible. Her writing is always really good, she says. A movie that tries so hard to keep you entertained, it ends up exhausting you.
Greg: I can see where she’s coming from on that one. Yeah, the times UK says Monkey Man is not perfect, but it does not have to be. The film feels alive with all the rush of drive or Uncut gems. This is not Bollywood. Nobody sings but rhythm is key.
Joe: I like that review. Yeah.
Greg: I think we’re tying into that with the music we’re talking about and. And with the percussion stuff there is a rhythm to this movie for sure. Yeah. My favorite review is from the Daily Telegraph. Tim Robie says jeez Louise, is it brutal.
Greg: Tiger in the Washington Post says Patel might have done something more daring with Monkey Man than anything he actually does in it. 2.5 out of four stars I think he’s saying like, his performance struggles, but he makes a great movie.
Joe: I sort of allow it. And it should also be noted we like to look at second unit directors. Second unit director is the second unit director on the raid, one and two. And it is. And a couple of the fight scenes are incredibly evident. Like I was wondering, is it either the John Wick group, you know, the Chad Stahelski and David Leitch or is it The Raid?
Joe: Like it is top notch action choreography of the style that we have grown to love and, you know, really respect. And it shows that you have someone who knows what they’re doing. And brutal is probably the nicest word that I can have for his kind of action scenes.
Greg: Sure.
Joe: Where it should be said that we tried to watch The Raid and it was that was we had to pivot to this one, which is going, I guess, from like one of the most brutal movies ever to just kind of brutal.
Greg: Sure. Empire magazine says stylish, high energy, smart and eye wateringly violent. These are quibbles, for sure, but where it counts, Monkey Man goes bananas in the best possible way.
Joe: Props to the bananas line. Yeah, and the monkey man. Very much a missed opportunity in my back of the box.
Greg: To.
Joe: Lean into all the Monkey Man tropes are the monkey tropes I could think of.
Greg: So let me read two more real quick. Katie Rife and IndieWire says it’s a free for all of Head Rush filmmaking. Its lack of grounding wide shots makes the film feel unmoored at times, which inhibits emotional engagement. It’s an interesting take, and I did feel that.
Joe: I disagree with that. I like that cloistered feel. Yeah, okay. So that was like a point of like enjoyment for me of watching this and to feel like it is supposed to feel like you’re with, you know, however many million people live in Mumbai.
Greg: So what does that create? Does it create the feeling like anyone could come around the corner right now and and be a problem? Yeah, because you’re kind of unmoored in where you are.
Joe: And it feels tight like you’re just like yeah. Constantly surround like there’s no release. There’s no places to take a breath. And to me like the wide shots are places where you get to go, okay. This is where we’re going. This is you know, so you go okay, this I, you kind of set it up. Oh, we’re oh.
Joe: We’re here. This is the location and now we’re moving into here. And so you kind of are set up and it takes away your ability to play ahead of the plot a little bit unmoored is the feeling I think, that they’re going for. But purposefully and I like that. I like it felt different to me than the classic shots that everything is really tight in.
Joe: This movie’s so much handheld, so much just like close to the actor.
Greg: That’s interesting. I love that it worked for you. I feel like, this is probably the largest sign that it had a limited budget. I couldn’t back up the cameras to show more because there wasn’t more to show. Yeah. They couldn’t do. Yeah. And it’s amazing that that’s the case if that was the case or how whatever led them to that decision you’re on board with it.
Greg: I also felt like man, we were really tight on all of these people. This whole movie, I don’t really know where we are in this space right now. And that kind of bothered me. And maybe the bothered me feeling is also what made you feel like, oh, this is tense and I’m enjoying it.
Joe: To me it raised the tension because this is a movie that like is trying to get to the end. So you have like this some sort of like emotional experience at the end of relief where you’re kind of let out of the world. And so to me that was kind of how it built up and got to the end.
Greg: Yeah, yeah. Let me read one more review. Real, real quick. Brian Tallarico of Roger ebert.com says Monkey Man may be an original story for a future action franchise character, but it feels more like an origin story for a future action star and director. And that’s kind of what we’re saying as well. All right, Joe, I don’t even know if I’m ready to hear what you have cooked up for them for this, but are you ready.
Greg: Should we get to drinking games.
Joe: Let’s do it. I have a ridiculous amount of drinking games. So just a heads up to everybody. Yeah. If you’re playing along with me, you’re going to be drunk in this movie or really hydrated or however it is. Whatever you’re drinking.
Greg: Exactly.
Joe: Let’s go through our stock drinking games. Also a lot of these, which is awesome. Yeah. Silent or low flying helicopter. Yes. We have several.
Greg: Yep.
Joe: No push in and enhance that I saw. But we do have lots of slow motion. So he’s definitely in the John Woo slash Zack Snyder does.
Greg: Zack Snyder more.
Joe: Slo mo per regular than any director ever. But this movie is is on par with that.
Greg: And the cinematographer of this movie, the guy behind the lights and lenses and cameras, he either worked with John Woo immediately before this or after this on Silent Night.
Joe: Awesome. Yeah, a movie we have. Well for sure. Do I have seen? Not as good as I was hoping.
Greg: Yeah, let’s do this. Yeah. Okay.
Joe: We have explosions, silent suffering and ringing in the ears. It’s awesome.
Greg: Hundred percent. We do take a drink.
Joe: So much of that. I’ve added a new trope which we’ll get to. So foreshadowing on that opening credits scene, the title locks in place for the sound, so it’s kind of like a gong that happens behind, not a gong, but like there’s a definite the score. Okay, so many flashbacks.
Greg: So many.
Joe: Bad CGI on lots of blood splatter, and they don’t use it too much. But really for blood splatter.
Greg: Is there aren’t really CGI close calls though, right?
Joe: Not like we’re thinking, but this.
Greg: Is an die hard for. No, this isn’t the A-Team. This isn’t next with Nicolas Cage.
Joe: Yeah, it’s not that level of of close calls, but I feel like this is kind of the new thing that’s taken over, like CGI blood splatter, if you want.
Greg: Yeah, yeah.
Joe: Not as many great bad shots as usual. No, but we do have a fair amount. Sure. Especially in the car chase scene. And within that scene, a beautiful, inexplicably wet street. Yes. Shows up out of nowhere. It’s just for, like, 20ft and that’s it. And then they’re back on it like, you know, perfect.
Greg: Yeah. You need. Yeah.
Joe: No Interpol or give us the room.
Greg: Well, we do get, you need to turn around while I’m opening up this vault.
Joe: Oh. That’s true. So that could be. Give us the room.
Greg: Yeah, there we go. There was not a give us the room, but there was, I need you to turn away while I open up the safe. And I appreciated that.
Joe: That’s dealer’s choice. Drink or not. Whatever you want to do on that one. So. All right, I will turn it over to you. Greg, what is your first drinking game that you have.
Greg: Every time you hear the Top Gun shot?
Joe: That’s amazing. Yeah, I have really. Any time you have noticeable slow mo in this movie, take a drink. They use it to, like, highlight the. There’s a love interest in this movie. Although they don’t. It’s kind of unrequited. They don’t they don’t follow through on it. There’s lots of scenes with slo mo. I think what I’m realizing, and this is this to me is the brilliance of John Woo slo mo, which I think this is referencing.
Joe: John Woo slo mo doesn’t happen in the action scenes, right?
Greg: Right.
Joe: They happen in the lead up. They almost bookmark.
Greg: Them. We’ll just call that face offing.
Joe: Exactly. And so there’s so much slo mo in this movie before and and after scenes.
Greg: So nice. Okay, I have any time they focus on his hands which are scarred.
Joe: Oh, that’s a good one. I have any time you notice the sound effects over the score, take a drink. Because that’s to me, while we were talking about the sound editing. Like there are, there are multiple scenes where there’s no score, like the sound of the city around them or wherever the environment is. Feels like the volume is turned up on.
Greg: Yeah, I have anytime he gets it. Nicki Minaj, the mini car, which totally reminded me of a Beverly Hills cop movie. There’s always like some hilarious little vehicle in those movies. That was a very f moment for me.
Joe: Yes. Or, why does the Mission Impossible seven, when they’re in the whatever that little fiat is or whatever?
Greg: Oh, totally. Totally. That was amazing.
Joe: Anytime there’s a John Wick reference, take a drink.
Greg: Okay, I like it. I cannot express to you how sweaty he is in this movie. And that is exactly what I would look like in a movie that was filmed in Indonesia. So I am right there with Dev Patel. But any time he is sweaty, like somebody gets that and anytime he is sweaty and wide eyed, exasperated at the same time, that’s a longer drink.
Joe: Okay, I have what I’m now calling, and this might end up having to move into into the tropes, but okay, Tom cruise tears.
Greg: So is he fighting them?
Joe: He’s fighting them like his eyes are welling up.
Greg: Yeah, he’s.
Joe: Feeling the emotion. You’re feeling the emotion with him, sure. But it’s not like an ugly cry Sobbing. It’s just like the moment is catching him in. Maybe a tear kind of one drips down his eyes, but that’s it. Like, to me that is the Matt like Tom cruise is the master of that look. Yeah. And Dev Patel is leaning heavily on that.
Joe: And lots of these scenes.
Greg: I feel more empathetic to Dev Patel’s emotions than Tom Cruise’s emotions. I think I am more on board emotionally with. I think Dev Patel is the better actor for me.
Joe: Yeah, for sure.
Greg: I feel more connected to what he’s feeling than Tom cruise. I’m just like studying the science of it. My last one. I only have five. Okay. Any time he has a new fight in the ring where he’s the monkey man.
Joe: I have kind of. Anytime you see him in his mask.
Greg: Oh, that’s a good one. That’s a really good one. Yeah, yeah.
Joe: Any time you just. Really. And this might just be me or just people like us.
Greg:
Joe: You just really appreciate the use of a handheld camera. Take a drink.
Greg: There’s a lot of that. Yeah. Yeah.
Joe: There’s a lot of close ups of, of eyes in this movie. So take a drink every time there’s a close up of an eye. Okay. Any time he brushes the hair out of his face and I got this line and he’s, like, always kind of pushing it back.
Greg: And because it’s so sweaty.
Joe: Yeah. Anytime you see a reflection. So there’s in either car mirrors and puddles and yeah, mirrors. Lots of that. Take a drink. Yeah. Anytime there’s a shot of a root, take a drink.
Greg: Oh my.
Joe: Gosh. There are so many in this movie that’s interesting. They’re walking basically through. Yeah. The most unsafe.
Greg: Place. Like you’re going.
Joe: To break an ankle walking through there.
Greg: It ends with his mom tripping on a route, right?
Joe: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I have any time. There’s, kind of those mother child scenes when they’re kind of playing together. Take a drink. Yeah. Anytime a character spits unintentionally, take a drink. There’s some really tight shots of Sharlto Copley where he’s, like, screaming into the mic and like, spittle is flying out of his mouth. And same for Dev Patel.
Joe: So we have.
Greg: Those really good ones.
Joe: Oh, and then bad guy shots that really show that they’re the bad guy. So like Rana, the first scenes of him, he is like shot from below. He’s powerful.
Greg: Oh, yeah.
Joe: You know, so just like, how do you tell he is a bad guy? They’re showing you that he is the bad guy.
Greg: Dev Patel called this armpit shots. Yeah. And it’s kind of how he showed himself to be the hero as well. It’s like a place of strength. The armpit shots.
Joe: They do that so much. Especially if the beginning for the bad guy. And I can see it for Dev Patel’s character as he kind of raises up.
Greg: And he looks incredible in this movie, like he is not bonkers swole. He is just in really, really good shape as a person in this. And it’s almost like John McClane, honestly. Like regular guy in shape. But then, you know, a couple notches above. Is in great shape for this movie.
Joe: He is I aspire to have his body.
Greg: Yeah. You probably will by like Wednesday.
Joe: Yeah. No. Thursday maybe.
Greg: Yeah. Later this week.
Joe: I got a I have a meeting tomorrow so I’ll take off tomorrow. And then you can throw in their shots of the Monkey Man book that she’s reading from the beginning or the film, you know, the kind of animated monkey man. But if you are drinking with that one bike, pack some water because you’re gonna you’re going to be drinking a lot with that.
Greg: Drink water every time you see that one. Yeah. All right, Joe, is it time to get to Joe’s Lightning Round, aka signs? You might be watching a great bad movie.
Joe: Yes, I have a couple new tropes. Oh, I mentioned this one before, but when the hero becomes the hero. So in this movie, we have that. Yeah. Where he takes the money from the, where he’s living the the monastery or whatever it is, and then he goes and fights in the ring and like, he knocks out the guy with a kick Mike instantly.
Greg:
Joe: And then there’s a scene when he’s with Rana where he realizes that he is the better fighter because he’s kind of lost the first fight him, then he realizes that he has he is the hero I love those.
Greg: So the greatest. Yeah.
Joe: And then this is like the hero story trope. So he kind of gets knocked down and must work his way back with a master to get stronger. So that’s when they kind of have that training montage with the drummer and the the other person. Alpha. Yeah. And then this is the other new trope that I have, which is jumping into water and then the sound disappears.
Greg: Yeah.
Joe: So you kind of hear them hit the water, the bubbles, and then it just goes quiet.
Greg: So that’s really good.
Joe: That happens. We have revenge as the driver, the protagonist, also redemption. I kind of gave it as a charismatic antagonist or bad guy with the cult leader or the, Baba shocked. The hell yeah. We have a scene where they buy guns. We have amazing recovery time. So on him, don’t even worry about this. Don’t even worry about it.
Joe: He’s been shot. He’s been stabbed like three days later. He’s killing people all dead.
Greg: That’s two more days. And he needed.
Joe: Yeah. Medical care from a partner or a loved one, or himself checking if a gun is loaded as well. So he does that a couple different times, or he gets a gun and then, like, looks at the magazine or opens it up the revolver. That is the trope lightning round.
Greg: Okay. Well, Joe, listen, we’ve talked about this movie enough. Are you ready to answer some important questions about this movie?
Joe: More than ever. Let’s do it.
Greg: Did Monkey Man hold up way back then, 11 months ago when it came out?
Joe: I feel like it did.
Greg: So all this time later. Does it hold up now?
Joe: I am hopeful that this will become a cult classic, as I said, and it’ll hold up better and better over time. But I feel like it actually in the three times I’ve watched, it gets better each time.
Greg: I think we’re witnessing the beginning of something. And so I think much like Jordan Peele, when he comes out with a new movie, we kind of look back on his canon. We’ll do the same thing with Dev Patel. Yeah. How hard do they sell the good guy in this movie?
Joe: Not really at all.
Greg: They show it. They don’t say it. Yeah, yeah. How hard do they sell the bad guy?
Joe: Oh, they also show it. And pretty strongly. You really don’t like especially Rana. Oh, man. You do not like him by the end.
Greg: Joe, why is there romance in this movie?
Joe: There is hardly any romance in this movie, right?
Greg: There’s no romance in this movie. Although there is the character of Sita, played by Subete de la, which she’s really good in this movie. She auditioned for it before she had been cast in anything, but then she got the role three years later, and, she had worked a bit and kind of gotten a name for herself at that point.
Greg: So best case scenario for a Joe Skywalker romance wise.
Joe: Yeah, this is pretty much nailed it. Like, there’s definitely chemistry. And maybe in the future there’s romance, but we don’t need to worry about that in this movie. No.
Greg: Are we bad people for loving this movie?
Joe: Yes. I can’t, I can’t I mean, there are there are positive themes in this movie, but.
Greg: Right.
Joe: Yeah, we’re we’re bad people.
Greg: Does it deserve a sequel?
Joe: I would watch the hell out of a sequel. So that’s all I’m saying, I think. Yes. What about you? What do you think on that?
Greg: I just wrote, I guess, question mark, I don’t know, I feel like the thing that I like about this movie is the emotional story and what they probably wouldn’t do that in the sequel.
Joe: I would be totally fine if there was no sequel.
Greg: Yeah, it’s.
Joe: One of those movies where I feel like the he told the story he wanted to tell, if he want the cash grab and there’s a market for it, and I’m not going to stand in his way, and I’ll watch it. And I would watch however many Monkey Man sequels there are.
Greg: If they make a second one, they have to make a third one. I feel like if they’re going to start making just another Monkey Man movie, they have to make at least two more. Does this movie deserve a prequel? No place. What if John Wick is in it?
Joe: Okay. I’m back. It okay.
Greg: Okay.
Joe: This is the John Wick prequel exception then. Well then fire for ever for no Nick canon Joe.
Greg: Should Monkey Man have been nominated for Best picture at the Oscars?
Joe: I would have been better with Monkey Man being nominated than in Top Gun.
Greg: Amazing.
Joe: But no, it should not have been nominated.
Greg: Okay, okay, Joe, how can this movie be fixed? AKA who should be the remake?
Joe: I have and I, I’ve kind of perverted this question for my own liking and how I can think about it. So I have two options.
Greg: Okay, okay.
Joe: You either go full John Wick with the fight scenes, not kind of add more.
Greg:
Joe: You just kind of do it or you go full Bollywood with musical numbers.
Greg: Suddenly there’s dancing.
Joe: Those are the two ways. Yeah. All right. How do you fix this movie? Who should be in the re in the remake?
Greg: Okay, well, I do think this movie could and should be remade, and I think the same cast. Okay, but you know how in this movie there’s, like, a mom and a little boy and then the bad guy kills the mom and burns down the little boy’s village. I think we should remake this movie with the same cast, but in this version, none of that bad stuff happens to the little boy.
Greg: Okay. And it’s just a portrayal of a happy childhood where nothing bad happens. Okay. But because of that, the boy takes his good life for granted. Obviously, because nothing bad has happened to him and starts to spiral because he has nothing to fight against. So he becomes super destructive and selfish and ends up at a dead end job in the dish pit at the Kings Hotel, where he’s super bored and thinks everyone else is the problem.
Greg: The end.
Joe: Are some. I don’t know that I watched that movie, but I appreciate where you’re going with that.
Greg: So then I it’s not so gut wrenching for me to watch, basically. Okay. And it’s fixed. It’s fast.
Joe: It’s a rags to rags story. Exactly.
Greg: Rags to it. Yeah. Okay. Very important question for you. Okay. What album is Monkey Man.
Joe: So I really spent a lot of time thinking about this. And then I also use the words of Dev Patel as he talked about the Trojan horse version of this. So what would be considered a Trojan Horse album that is like in one style, but really trying to have a message behind it. And so to me, this album is Rage Against the Machine’s first album.
Joe: There’s a lot of people that don’t really realize that Rage Against the Machine is a political entity in and of themselves. All the lyrics and all their songs are really talking about the ills of society, but it’s also dressed up and just a super tight rock band. So it’s like rock, classic drum, bass, guitar, vocal or just going to kick your ass rock music with a message.
Joe: So that’s what this movie is to me, and that’s what this album is to me.
Greg: It always surprises me that they were signed to a major label. They were from corporate America, the way every rock and roll band had been in the past. Basically, yeah.
Joe: What album is this for you? I’m very curious.
Greg: Okay, well, this is a movie where an actor who we knew and liked shows that he can also write and direct, you know, he shows himself in a new light. But also there’s that feeling of like, I didn’t know he had that in him. You know, I didn’t expect that from that guy. And so I tried and tried and tried to find something less obvious.
Greg: But this is the first Foo Fighters album. Oh. Did you ever know that Dave Grohl, the drummer of Nirvana, who sang backup vocals, could do that? Yeah, no.
Joe: Or that he would go on to what he became?
Greg: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I’m just talking about that first album. The first time I heard, you know, the first say, three songs. I didn’t know he had this in him, you know? And you go back and you listen to his harmonies on songs like All Apologies or all of their songs. He was, you know, the one doing those backup vocals like, well, yeah, he was really good.
Greg: Yeah. And he was playing the drums really hard. So he was also singing really hard. Well, he was back there at the drums. So of course you can sing like this, you know. So it’s that first Foo Fighters album. I didn’t know he had it in him.
Joe: I’ll allow it. And I feel like. And I say this to a drummer, you being a drummer. Yeah. Is the Dave Grohl arc something that you look for as a drummer, or are you like, you have sold us out and betrayed us all. Go back to playing the drums.
Greg: No, I think Dave Grohl, you know, was willing to take a backseat because he was with Kurt Cobain. I think that says a lot about him as a person.
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: And he was, you know, he wrote and he did demos for that first Foo Fighters album while Nirvana was touring. That was something he did with his roommate in West Seattle.
Joe: Awesome.
Greg: And that roommate is actually the guy who produced that first Foo Fighters album. So I think it says a lot about his character, that he had this in him and he was in the wings writing songs, playing them for Kurt in like the The Jet or whatever. However, they traveled, but didn’t think to do anything with them because he was in Nirvana.
Greg: I don’t know, it’s funny when you meet drummers in bands, they’re either entirely checked out and the least reliable person, or they’re the one that’s really holding everything together, right? So I’d say half the drummers are probably Dave Grohl out there, you know?
Joe: Okay.
Greg: The short version to answer your question is if the drummer is also a backup singer, there’s probably something going on there. That’s Dave Grohl ish.
Joe: Okay.
Greg: And it’s worth investigating. You should hang out with some drummers that that also sing and see if they want to do something on the side. All right, Joe, next important question. It’s time for us to rate Monkey Man. You’ve kind of already tipped your hand at this but we have a scale. It’s great bad movies. Good bad movies okay.
Greg: Bad movies bad bad movies. Worst case awful bad movies. What is this movie?
Joe: I really like this movie. And I’m trying to adjust our, our rating schedule a little bit because we have great, great movies. And I don’t know that I think this is a great, great movie.
Greg: Okay. That’s where you started at the beginning of this episode.
Joe: Yeah I think I have as we have talked about it, I’ve actually talked myself off the ledge of great, great movie, okay. Into like a great good movie or something like that of like. I really like this movie. There are some great parts in it and there are parts that are our kind of movie. So it’s probably, I should probably just write this a great bad movie.
Joe: Yeah. So I’ll go with great bad movie. Sure. But it’s on the cusp of a great, great movie. To me, this is I really enjoyed it and I, I am looking forward to more Dev Patel movies to come, whatever they are. Sir. Yeah. How do you rate this movie?
Greg: It’s gone up a notch since we started talking for me, so we’re kind of meeting in the middle. All right, but all good. You know, friendships and conversations do. So I am upgrading it from an okay, bad movie because I felt so weird when I finished this. When the credits rolled, I was like, but I don’t feel great about myself right now, so I am upgrading it to a good, bad movie.
Greg: But I will also say, I really wonder if I’ll ever watch this again. And so it’s it’s a different kind of great bad movie for me. I don’t know how many times in my life I will watch this. Maybe I will watch it all the time because now I’m numb to the emotion of it. All right, Joe, we made it.
Joe: We had the conversation to be had almost a year later on Monkey Man, so no need for any further conversation. Quite frankly.
Greg: No. And as always, spoilers for Monkey Man.
Joe: Yeah, spoilers for Monkey Man. But if you listen to this podcast, you know that by now, right?
Greg: I hope we do hope. And if you have enjoyed this podcast, hey, there are some ways you can help out our show. You could, tell a friend, you could give us a, five star review on whatever app you’re listening to us on. And, if you haven’t been listening to us on an app, find us on whatever podcast app you use.
Greg: And, follow the show and give it a good rating there.
Joe: Yeah. Please do. Every little bit helps.
Greg: Every little bit helps. Yeah. We’re getting worried about and we’re just been spreading about the show. We’ve been getting some really nice notes from people. So we appreciate you guys. Listen to the show and, we look forward to talking with you down the road. All right, Joe? Well, I guess that’s it. We’re done. Yeah.
Joe: All right. Goodbye. I think I saved.
Greg: Oh, my gosh, I just noticed the giant. Listen, I don’t want to just leave without a reason.
Joe: Yeah, that would be weird.
Greg: This has been great, but, I should probably go. Sharlto Copley just arrived at my house, and that never means good things for my day, so I should probably head out.
Joe: I’m so jealous. Anyway, I’ve got a job opportunity at this underground fight club. They call me Captain Colonialism. I think that means I’m a good guy, right?
Greg: Okay. And so you need to go. Yeah, I gotta go.
Greg: Okay, well, that works for me, because I just realized that the Top Gun chime wasn’t a thing that was actually in this movie. It just keeps happening in my head. And I should probably go get that looked at. You. You guys heard that, right? No. Okay. No, I’m not.
Joe: Anyway, I’ve got to go. I’m going on this hike where there are constant tree roots sticking up everywhere. I’m sure I won’t twist my ankle or fall down. It seems very safe.
Greg: No, I think you’re good. And I bet your mom’s fine with that, too.
Joe: Yeah, I’m sure she has.
Greg: Do you know what’s weird is my neighbor’s wallet was just stolen, and then it was handed to 12 people, and the 12th person was me. It’s now in my hands, so I need to go count how much money I just got from Dave.
Joe: Oh, that’s good. That’s good to know. Yeah. I’ve got to go. I’m late for my rice bag punching class, so I’ll be. I’ll be. I got to go.
Greg: Well, can I go with you? Do you have a plus one? Yeah.
Joe: Bring it on. Yeah. I’m sure they’ll let the first person in for free.
Greg: Okay. I, you know, I should probably go as well. Ashley, why are you doing that? I really regret not asking. The place where I had a job as a dishwasher in college. If they also had a VIP room. Here’s where I could have avenged something. So I guess I have to go because of that regret. It doesn’t have to all make sense.
Greg: Yeah, it.
Joe: Doesn’t have to make sense, but I’m with you on that regret. I’ve got to go train for the tuck tuck races that are coming up. So, I’ll see you later.
Greg: Okay. That works for me, because I just took a drug that they say only a weakened man can benefit from. And only a strong man can survive. And I would not describe myself as strong. So I should just blow.
Greg: Greg?
Joe: Greg, are you okay?
Greg: For.
Greg:
Joe: I need you to wake the president. There’s been an incident.